What do you think is the best "self defense" weapo

[Treebranch]

What you didn't like the body armor idea? I thought it was pretty good. You really need to watch Bowling for Columbine, I think you'll like it. You really need to look at the statistics of gun related deaths in the US as compared to other First World Industrialized Nations. So from what you have said, do you carry a gun to protect yourself from the Police? Who's the criminal now? Are you going to shoot an officer if he points his gun at you and gives you a command? You can't compare Vermont where everything is so spread out to California. Just compare the population of Los Angeles alone to Vermont. Sorry, but bad comparison. Do you really think the guns used in these crimes didn't come from LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Where do you think these criminals get these guns. They get them from people who go and rob the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS home when no one is home and take their GUN COLLECTION and sell it. Think about it. When your not home someone can break in and take your precious guns, and now your BEST TOOL OF SELF DEFENSE is going to be used to kill or seriously hurt someone. Also in the process of protecting yourself with your cowardly weapon, your stray bullets might hit someone elses kids or wife or whatever. Buy a bullet proof vest and call it a day. NOBODY'S TRYING TO KILL YOU MY FRIEND.

[Martial_Artist]

Off topic but I can tell you every single statistic stated in Bowling for Columbine was falsified. Micheal Moore lied heavily in that film and deceived a great many people. It has already been discredited by several experts, not just gun experts. Bolwing For Columbine would rather blame an inanimate object than the influencial music of Marilyn Manson. Moore has categorically been shown to be a falsifier of information in Bowling for Columbine. Sorry, but a bad movie. Sorry you fell for it instead of doing your own research. The FBI, US Dept. of Justice and various other sources don't lie, just give the facts as they happen. I would tend to think someone would be better off analyzing something from the source rather than taking it from a tainted source. You really need to take a look at the world around you.

 

At first you said don't watch the news cause all it does is breed fear. Then you said that you are afraid and the US is an ultra violent society, and now you're contradicting yourself? I can't take anything you say seriously. You have done nothing to support your claims, but cite a silly movie by a silly person whose facts were altered and falsified to meet his personal beliefs.

 

A bullet proof vest does nothing to protect you from the harm a criminal can do. If he wants to kill you he will. Police know this and aren't that foolish to trade weaponry for a ballistic vest.

 

As I have said the statistics presented in Bowling for Columbine are inaccurate. Every study done concerning violence in first world countries has concluded that per capita, countries with strict gun control laws have higher percentages of violent crime. I have already stated an independent source for this information. The Dutch Ministry of Information. You have cited, Bowling for Columbine, an obvious biased farse. For every 100,000 people in the UK 4.9% will fall victim to violent crime. In the US, 1.9%. You do the math.

 

Bad comparison? Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, Utah combined don't reach what the crime is in California. I could add Texas, Florida and afew others. Truth is more guns = less crime. It has been statistically proven countless times. Where there are more guns there is less violent crime. Independent researchers have concluded this. This is why the anti-gun lobbyists no longer pursue that more guns = more crime. They have been proven wrong. They focus more on the "evil" gun and the "if it just saves one life" rather than face logic and fact.

 

I do know more about where illegal guns come from than you. A high percentage does NOT come from guns stolen from homes. Illegal purchases on the street from guns illegally imported into the US account for the majority of guns found in the hands of criminals. Criminals get guns not from law abiding citizens. Again, you need to research your facts before speaking.

 

I don't need to think about anything. I have done the research, read the studies, and know for myself. I think you need to think about it, but that won't help Bowling for Columbine is all the gun fact research you appearantly need.

 

Cowardly weapon? I can clearly see you understand nothing of self-defense. Since when does gaining an advantage over your opponent become cowardly? Cops are cowardly, they use guns. Soldiers are cowardly, they use guns. You are cowardly, cause you use a knife. By your logic any weapon or advantage is cowardly and thus every martial artist who trains in the martial arts is a coward because they have unevened the playing field.

 

You need a reality check. In a life or death situation the winner is the one alive. There is no referree to call "foul" or the cheap shots. When a bad guy pulls a gun and shoots you in the town you're so afraid of, then by all means draw your knife, see where it gets you.

 

Stray bullets? You don't know the statistics behind that comment do you? If you did you'd know the police shoot more people from stray bullets than law-abiding citizens. You'd know that out of the 2.5 million cases where guns saves lives only 0.9% of those times was a shot ever fired. You'd know enough not to speak when you don't know what you're saying, son.

 

I think you watch too many movies and have let Hollywood tell you how gunfights happen, or how guns are used in real life. I don't think you can argue otherwise, everything you've said testifies to the fact that you know nothing about the lawful use of firearms and the facts behind them. INstead, Micheal Moore has been your teacher, and every fact stated in his movie was altered or falsified to fit his agenda.

 

You have proven yourself to be incapable of logical discussion.

 

You also don't seem to read my posts. I clearly stated I don't walk around in fear. I'm not the one who thinks we live in an Ultra violent society and everyone is a psycho just waiting to get a gun and shoot me. You said that. You should re-read your own posts before making asinine comments.

 

Nobody is trying to kill me. But I won't give them an excuse to either, and I'm not going take the chance that they won't try. You can live your life in your little bubble world of a utopia where the world is an ultra violent place, but you will remain immune because you don't carry a cowardly gun and instead an almost useless knife. I will remain in the real world and carry the best tool of self-defense and when somone from your world comes to mine I will simply shoot them. I will not draw a knife against their gun. I will not say to them, Bowling for Columbine will solve the problems of crime. I will expect him not to use a gun, he is a criminal, he will use whatever means is easiest for him to get what he wants. You obviously do not understand that. Instead, you live in a world of contradictions and faulty logic.

 

I have exhausted the use of logic and fact. There is nothing more to say. You will not understand fact and logic, so I will not waste bandwidth explaining anything further.

 

My advice to you is: learn the facts. Do your research from the sources. Buy a gun, oh wait, you live in the People's Republic of Kalifornia. The government there doesn't deem you worthy enough of self-protection. You can't carry a gun. You are not that special. You are not rich, a politician, or a famous person with the need to have a bodyguard. You are an expendable sheep in the state of California. You also do not realize this. I feel pity, but that's all.

 

I wish you luck, and I advise you not to make any more comments not founded or based on fact or supportable documentation.

 

I am done with this. It has strayed from topic and further discussion should be opened in a new thread.

 

MA.

[Treebranch]

This site has a report that supports what you have said, but also shows the other side which you have not done. I will admit that the information provided does support your point of view more.

 

http://www.rkba.org/research/suter/states.crime-ccw.4sep95.html

 

I can see your point, and according to several sources I've checked you seem to be correct in feeling the way you do. I think that there are many factors not being accounted here in this debate, but on the surface it does show that the states with less gun control have less crime or a drop in crime. Also notice that Mississippi and California have roughly the same amount of crime and one allows gun carrying and the other doesn't not. So there are definetly factors that are being overlooked.

 

I see your point, but I hate the fact that it is so easy to pull a trigger and take a life. That's why I like MA because it takes skill and dedication to be a good fighter, inversely a child can be dangerous with gun in their hand. Maybe I just fear guns, I don't know what it is. I prefer not to have one, that doesn't mean I don't know how to use one. If things truley get to the point where I feel I need a gun I will get one. Whether or not it is legal her in the Republic of California, or whatever you call it. Aim small miss small.

[Fenris-wolf]

Wow, so many guns. We don't really have many guns (excl. rifles for hunting) in NZ, although apparently it's pretty easy to get a permit.

 

Personally, I like the theory of "everything is a weapon". It's always fun to think of ways to make really random things into weapons. But that's not really addressing the question.

 

I don't know what I'd pick as the most effective, since I don't carry anything. I'm so vague about our laws that it's not really worth bothering. I think we're pretty strict.

 

But really I can't help but feel that bringing guns into the situation just moves the whole thing up a notch.

 

Just IMO...

[Martial_Artist]

Hey Fenris, where abouts in NZ are you? I have a really good friend that lives in New Zealand. He's from Auckland. He keeps telling me how beautiful it is down there. You near Auckland?

[Fenris-wolf]

Not exactly... I live in Wellington, which by NZ standards isn't exactly close, but geographically speaking it's not very far at all.

 

Auckland's near the top of the North Island, Wellington's at the very bottom of the North Island.

 

Yes, NZ's great. The rest of NZ tend's to be a bit anti-auckland (in a joking way), since that's where most of the rich and famous live and it's pretty much full of smog and big buildings. Of course, in comparison to New York, which has 3x our population, it's a village!

 

How long's your friend lived here?

[Fenris-wolf]

In relation to your conversation/argument , which I can't resist commenting on now I've read the whole thing... I agree with both of you, dammit.

 

I'm kinda anti-guns, but I think it comes more down to the mentality of the population than the laws. Martial_artist, you're so right -make a law and all you do is make criminals of "normal" people. Or force them to be persecuted by those who disregard it. On the other hand, the sheer amount of people (and no I can't back this up ) who will shoot a family member if, for example they keep a handgun in a drawer by the bed and they are woken from a bad dream, is kinda scary.

 

So I think that America needs to encourage a more... I don't know, level emotional state from it's populous. I think the main problem is the whole "freedom of the press", which leads the tabloids etc to fear-monger in order to sell magazines/papers.

 

As an example on a lesser scale, there was a lot of hysteria created over "dangerous dogs" in NZ earlier this year, so that people with dogs were being abused by people when they go to the beach because there was so much propaganda being spread around. That really pissed me off.

[Martial_Artist]

Fenris-Wolf,

 

Actually my friend that lives in New Zealand is a true native. He's half Maori and Samoan. Born and raised in New Zealand. In fact, he's still there. It figures he'd come from the rich place, though. He's an aspiring actor, and it just makes sense for him to come from the rich part of town. Thanks.

 

MA.