Whats up with JJ

[craknek]

yes, no holds barred. My Master does not really like, nor believe in the whole point system thing that tournaments do. He likes Full Contact. The skill level of the JJ guy.. not entirely sure, didnt ask, but I imagine he wouldnt fight someone of lesser caliber.

 

The point I am trying to make is.. if you prepare for it, you have better chances to fight it. TKD students, with all there legwork... would be almost retarded to go toe to toe and grapple with a JJ, even if the TKD guy does know some grappling.. so, we use what we can to our advantage... kicking power, kicking length, and agility. Its when people try to fight outside of there art, that they start getting in trouble...or, that is how I feel about it.

 

Nick.

[JohnnyS]

There are several problems with what your saying Craknek:

 

Firstly, you're talking about a challenge match setting.

 

Secondly, even using the tactics you talk about, you've only got one chance to finish your opponent and that is to knock him out. No room for error or you end up on the ground.

 

Thirdly, anyone who shoots from 6ft away does NOT know how to do a proper double-leg (it should be performed from arms-length), so I question the ability of the JJ guy.

 

Lastly, a streetfight starts from arms length or less, too close for effective kicking range, but close enough for a good shoot. If you try to step back in an confrontation to give you room to kick, the guy will take a step forward and you're back in punching/shooting range.

[JohnnyS]

Dark_adjudication,

 

In a bar fight I personally would probably punch or headbutt the guy unconscious. However, if I were to use grappling then I'd finish him in a standing choke by spinning him around and choking him unconscious (which I've done as a bouncer maybe twenty times). If it did go to ground it would only last a few seconds before I've broken his arm or choked him unconscious - plenty of time for me to get back to my feet and face anyone should I need to.

[craknek]

Johnny? How many streetfights have you been in. I really question your exp here in that matter. The way your talking, you act as if a streetfight starts by someone coming up and just start fighting someone. IN rare occasions that does happen. In a real.. out and about real world fight... something is exchanged to create heat. Maybe words, Maybe body language, maybe a throw beer bottle.. but there is time to recognize your surrondings and prepare yourself. If someone was showing an ounce of hostility, I would get to where i NEED to be and be ready for movement.

 

As far as you have one chance to knock him out... how do you figure? The guy shoots in.. you dodge? Are you implying that someone in TKD is to slow to skip back a few feet again before he can shoot in again? Is this that JJ mentality where they can do anything? TKD .. or at least at our dojo, we are trained to be QUICK and fast on our feet.. we do the whole jumprope thing and everything. Maybe someone who uses hard stances, would have a harder time moving out of distance again, but we bounce around, like Bruce Lee did, to stay loose, and to move around more freely and quickly.

 

As for it being in a contest setting, your right. If it was a real street fight, I would use whatever I could... besides my legs... if I had to hit the guy with a Cement block, I would. On the street is real no holds barred, and from previous as.s whoopings, and giving out as.s whoopings, the stakes are to high to try and show your the man at your style, anyone who does is foolish. Even the common joe american with a Dagger hidden would fuk up a JJ artist.

 

Nick

[dark_adjudication]

JohnnyS, by your creds you apparently know what you are doing. I am just saying that going to the ground is not the uber move to end all moves.

[JohnnyS]

I worked as a bouncer for nearly seven years, so I didn't have the option of running away, or moving away from the door of a club. Some clubs were worse than others, but on occasion I would sometimes be involved in a couple of fights in a night. Mostly it could be avoided with bluff and confidence (which is what I prefer to do), but some people are stupid and don't take the hint and so need attitude adjustments.

 

As far as moving around quickly on your feet, how are you going to do that in a crowded bar ?

 

Look, I did TKD too, but it is very susceptible to the shoot, simply because most TKD schools encourage the "pop" with the kick and don't allow grabbing of legs in sparring. I was a TKD black belt and went to a Goju-ryu school and everytime I kicked they would just move in, grab my leg and I'd be in trouble.

[JohnnyS]

dark_adjudication,

 

you are correct. My instructor does not preach going to the ground always and neither do I. I would never encourage someone to take the fight to the ground unless they had to.

 

I do believe that stand-up skills are a necessary part of any martial artists reportoire. I also recognise that standing striking it is a weakness of BJJ and one not acknowledged by a lot of BJJers.

 

Back to the thread though, unless you practise regularly against the shoot by someone who knows what they are doing, you are not going to be able to avoid it in a challenge match or a streetfight. The answer to grappling attacks is grappling. It doesn't have to be a lot, but you definately need to know how to sprawl and whizzer.

[craknek]

I see your point Johnny about being a crowed club... but not every fight is in a crowded club.

[JohnnyS]

No, but most fights occur where there is alcohol and other people around.

[craknek]

Well, come on Johnny, Unless your a fool, you would try to find a more optimal situation to fight in, maybe outside? If someone was giving me heat, TKD or no TKD.. I would not fight in a small space... unless of course, as yOu said, I was a trained grappler> I entice him to follow me to a more open area.. people can still be around.. but at least there would be more room to move around.