Iron Fist 05 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Don't get me wrong, i love katas. They're one of my favorite things about training. And I know somewhat about the history of them and how they were at one time the only way MAs could be taught from one person to another. But I always hear paople saying things like: "If you never learn katas/without katas, all you would have in karate are just meaningless techniques."......or something like that. WHat I don't understand is why that is. Why are katas THAT important? That's all i'm wondering. I'm not a karate basher or anything. I'm just trying to more understand the meaning of katas. Thanks. "By the time I was fifteen, I became a white belt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGKK_Karateka Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 This forum contains lots of valuable information on other Martial Arts styles, their philosphies, principals and techniques. Often crtiticism of karate is often focused on perceived missing or grey areas of technical knowledge within the “canon” of karate knowledge. However that is a mistaken view in my opinion, as principals and techniques in many kata would fill those “gaps”. Kata is fundamental to karate and preceeds adoption of uniforms, grades, tournements, Okinawan cultural interpretations, Japanesee budo culture, western street/sport influences, etc. Kata in my mind is a teaching exercise, not a mysterious magical formula, but an effective way to learn. I apologise for the length of this post but to give my own take on things I will use the following story to hopefully provide an insight. I attend a traditional karate dojo. A couple of weeks a Sandan (3rd dan) was talking to a 1st Kyu (brown belt) in the changing room before a training session. The discussion was on the cyclical nature of methods, drills and emphasis of training. The Sandan had obtained his Shodan (1st dan) back in the early 70's and had started training in the 60's and has seen fashions in training come and go. He summarised to the 1st Kyu that there are three types of karate; what happens in the dojo, on the mats at a tournament and on the street. The discussion was brief due to finishing of the previous class and the summary was that the three types could be described as completely separate and almost unrelated with only a few techniques that were compatible in all areas. This statement could be taken as the first salvo in a debate on discussing the merits of which out of the three types of karate is 'valid' or 'worthy' or 'real' karate. Many martial artists go down this path and end up going up their own backsides. What this discussion really highlights is the challenge of effective martial arts training. That is how best to make the biomechanical principals and their applied techniques work in any violent combative situation. This is of course regardless of location (dojo, tournament or street). So on face value these three arenas of karate look as alike as chalk and cheese but they are more like comparing a lump of coal and a diamond. The real knowledge is a working appreciation of how the atoms bond together. A kick for example is a kick regardless of surroundings. The biomechanics of the human leg and the principals governing a kick are constant. The variables are tactical in nature like timing, space, target, and desired effect and positioning. The major risk of tailoring training to specific techniques for situational applications is over specialisation and consequent limitations on wider understanding and addaptabity of applications. All forms of organised fighting have rules of engagement that would mean preconditioned responses in controled situations due to the nature and number of the variables at play. Some are more 'real' than others and that simply entails a wider range of possible techniques or appliations are accepted but all share the common weakness of controlled situations (two people, enclosed space, physically and mentally prepared, rules, referee, etc). Effective training should embrace the physical conditioning of the human body, the development and understanding of the biomechnical advantages of techniques and the testing of applications of those techniques in a 'safe' controlled environment. My position would be simply that all three arenas of Karate (dojo, tournament or street) are different in the situations themselves are but remain the same on an elemental level. They furfil the purposes of testing ground, laboratory and battleground for karate. The purpose of any martial art is to lengthen one's own life not shorten it and the primary focus of training is to develop a working understanding of the biomechanical principals and their applied techniques for any violent combative situation. Kata is but one teaching exercise of karate but to my mind a very important one. Kata should be learnt, appreciated, understood, applied, adapted and finally dropped by the student. In the cyclical nature of things over time the student would begin again….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Welcome to the forums AGKK Karateka, excellent post. Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandanPJ Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Kata should be learnt, appreciated, understood, applied, adapted and finally dropped by the student. In the cyclical nature of things over time the student would begin again….. I told one of my brown belts this the other night.....it is so true...great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenakedpage Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 A well written post by AGKK. However, I must say- and s/he has cleverly pre-empted it in the quote represented here:This statement could be taken as the first salvo in a debate on discussing the merits of which out of the three types of karate is 'valid' or 'worthy' or 'real' karate. Many martial artists go down this path and end up going up their own backsides. What this discussion really highlights is the challenge of effective martial arts training. is that while there is some merit in looking at karate as it now is in the overall terms of those three areas, for those of us who love kata as the rcecord of the 'martial art'of karate we can only look at one of those three areas. It is not a case of anyones backside being gone up but purely a ratinal concern by those of us with genuine experience to practice the art as it was meant for what it was meant, purely and simply. I am not against budo- in fact bujutsu and budo can coexist, and some might say, should co-exist- but our kata is not for tournament judges, or to impress anyone anywhere- it is a storage for bunkai and correct movement for fighting. If you do it for the more modern reasons then fine too although it is not for me. It is arguable whether a karateka can train for tournaments and street at the same time as was rightly pointed out they are different areas requiring different approaches- so too with kata- you must decide what you want out of it and then study accordingly. If for tournament then training as normal- if for fighting taking the moves apart and practising with a partner- a two man kata- with varying degrees of freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Kata is a half way point between just working basic and sparring. It makes basics fun and sparring safe. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superleeds Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 What is it you american's say? Hook line and sinker. Great reply AGKK Read a book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 AGKK, excellent response! I had to lose my mind to come to my senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohan386364 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 They are important because they help you to think more about what the techniques are and what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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