Whats the point in doing Karate

[NinjaMaster]

And one more thing Kensai why go on about lineage and rubbish like that. I can have my opinion regardless of lineage it just seems obvious to me. Perhaps because in the west most people inderstand so little about history and if you knew a bit more you might be a bit more respectful of the system itself.People who use Karate other than for what it was intended are usually out to make money and thats just plain wrong beyond covering what they need to get by.

[Samurai_Steel]

The ongoing dilution of the styles will lead to the ultimate demise of martial arts in the mainstream, instead it will, and already has started to become a child care facility.

 

People join for many reasons, including self defence, fitness and all sorts of other things, there are not many reasons why people stay but the reasons that are there are the most compelling of all.

 

Trust your instructor, he is doing more than you may think. If you cannot do this find one you can. The style you study is just a route to the path, some better than others due mainly to the fact they have stuck to the principles that were always taught.

 

Or on the other hand get good at self defence, improve your confidence and when you are happy leave, there is nothing wrong with that either. Just be aware of the choice you are making.

[Kensai]

NinjaMaster,

 

You seem to have a failry concrete opinion of Karate. So I wanted to know what sort of experience you had of the style. Wanted to make sure that I was going to get a worth while debate rather than some 14 year old troll.

 

I also hope you do know the difference between the styles and not lumping them all together.

 

While it is true that diluation is a HUGE problem in the karate and Martial art community. Not all schools are the same. Depends on whether your lucky enough to find a good one.

 

So it seems to me that you have a problem with the mcdojo's and not karate itself. Which I agree with 110%. However, you coming onto the forums knocking karate as a system is generally not a respectable thing.

 

Ofcourse you can have an opinion regardless of lineage, but I wanted to make sure that its an informed one.

 

[BKJ1216]

NinjaMaster,

 

You seem to have a failry concrete opinion of Karate. So I wanted to know what sort of experience you had of the style. Wanted to make sure that I was going to get a worth while debate rather than some 14 year old troll.

 

I also hope you do know the difference between the styles and not lumping them all together.

 

While it is true that diluation is a HUGE problem in the karate and Martial art community. Not all schools are the same. Depends on whether your lucky enough to find a good one.

 

So it seems to me that you have a problem with the mcdojo's and not karate itself. Which I agree with 110%. However, you coming onto the forums knocking karate as a system is generally not a respectable thing.

 

Ofcourse you can have an opinion regardless of lineage, but I wanted to make sure that its an informed one.

 

Hey there isn't anything wrong with being 14.

[NinjaMaster]

Yeah Kensai I like Karate even though i do Thai Boxing. I did Karate for 2 years but changed to thai boxing because it is so diluted. I dont think i have knocked Karate though. Ive got a lot of respect for most styles providing they have some real back ground.

 

I started this topic and called it whats the point in doing kARATE because most but not all of the people on this forum are the very people diluting it. If that offends people then good. I hope it does and they leave their clubs and their instructors stop teaching and wasting peoples time with aerobics leasons instead of Karate. I know this wont offend those that train at REAL karate clubs so ignore this.

[Grunt]

Yeah Kensai I like Karate even though i do Thai Boxing. I did Karate for 2 years but changed to thai boxing because it is so diluted. I dont think i have knocked Karate though. Ive got a lot of respect for most styles providing they have some real back ground.

 

I started this topic and called it whats the point in doing kARATE because most but not all of the people on this forum are the very people diluting it.

 

OK, I think I'm starting to understand your real issue here. It's dilution that bothers you, yes? Can you explain to me what aspects of Karate, in your opinion, are being diluted? Note, I'm not trying to be a d!ck, just trying to understand the details of your concern/frustration.

 

Also, regarding dilution, it seems to me that this started many years ago in Asia. How many styles are fusions of other styles? How many people started their own form because of this or that reason? I guess what I'm asking is where/when do you see the dilution originating? And to what extent do we continue on a "traditional" path for the sake of tradition?

 

Lastly, I guess I can appreciate your concerns of Karate eventually becoming so watered down that it's no longer Karate. But my thoughts on this are, 1) I think someone will always be there to carry on the torch regardless of what happens (e.g. Karate will never fully die), and 2) if you are so concerned about the dilution of Karate, what are you doing about this? I mean, I like the bill of rights but if I do nothing to keep them alive and adhered to then who will? Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand the full picture. It's entirely possible that I'm missing something.

 

Grunt

[NinjaMaster]

Alot of questions and good ones so i will answer them in order so its clear.

 

Yes its dilution that bothers me. Its not the old ways so much as i think its impossible to have a system that does not evolve. If it stands still it should die.

 

I am concerned more with the whole point of the system in the first place. I like the idea of Karate that started as a system of defence in its time and that it must have changed constantly to adapt to new threats and so it should continue to do so. In fact i do not see why Karate should be all that similar to its origin if change is required.

 

The aspect being diluted i belive is the mentality. The progress Karate makes is verging on the insane with its new ways of dealing with multiple attackers, all this v shape rubbish and so on.

 

The dilution in styles due to merging is natural as if you use a technique on me i have never seen before and it works i will use it if i know how no matter where it comes from. If people start their own form fair enough as long at is for the right reason. I see the dilution of mental attitude to MA starting when it came to the west for predictable reasons i.e. money making.

 

We should never continue for the sake of tradition apart from the mind set thats all and keeping it real.

 

Its not just Karate for me that is going bad its all MA just about. I have most respect for things Like BJJ although i have not done it as that is the correct mentality. Develop the system to defeat all others however you do it.

 

Witht regards to doing something aboout it i cant change the way of life of the west but i can follow MA the way it was meant to be. I agree with mixing styles. I agree with training to fight and win. Taking part means nothing.

 

You all use quotes heres mine.

 

"Winning isn't everything but coming second is nothing."

[Grunt]

Thanks for the details. I wish I could say your concerns are legit but frankly, of the two dojos I've attened I have not seen a watered down karate. Perhaps I've been fortunate or maybe it's just that I haven't been with it long enough to discern the differences. But my gut tells me these schools are NOT McDojos. I can say that pretty much everything I've ever done in both schools has had a primary motive of self defense/fighting. Every technique has been taught with an explanation of why. And the explaination is always one of "martial" and not of "art" or physical fitness. Also, both of these schools, from my limited perspective, seem to be quite traditional. Part of me likes this because the original influences are maintained but part of me struggles with it sometimes because I don't see the connection to reality. For example, my interest in learning Japanese terminology and formalities isn't very high because I don't see a connection to my goals (e.g. self defense.) But I figure it's a small sacrifice to pay in order to learn what I'm truly interested in. Perhaps one day I will learn to appreciate these "lesser" aspects.

 

Now, all of that said, I still have no axe to grind with people that choose karate for other reasons. Again, their goals may not align with mine but I refuse to let that stop me and my goals. The two can be separate and yet co-exist.

Taking part means nothing.

 

I disagree with this. Participating is making a difference, albeit a small one. If the good schools have no participants, they will go under. If you desire to learn Karate and have access to a "good" school, then I think participating is making a difference and it does mean something. Who knows, perhaps one day a lower belt with desires like yours will climb the ranks of Karate and open a great school. But if they bail early because some karate schools aren't what they think they should be, they have missed an opportunity to make a difference.

You all use quotes heres mine.

 

"Winning isn't everything but coming second is nothing."

 

Check out the "Profile" link toward the top of the page. You can insert your quotes there in the Signature section.

 

Grunt

[AGKK_Karateka]

Ninjamaster I can empathise with your views.

 

I started training in a traidtional karate style in my teenage years attending a dojo with purpose built facilities and a head instructor who had been trained Japan. This was no “McDojo”. But one day I met an inspirational “real live” master. This guy sought no martial arts magazine artricles, or built karate schools, or wanted to create a new fighting system to be passed on down the ages or even encouraged new students to train with him. He started his training in the same karate style I studied and over the decades studied numerious styles and different traditions all the while traveling his own path towards greater knowledge. Myth and legend were blown away and the insights that were shared changed my way of thinking about karate completely. My reaction was so intense that I made a mental descision that if I could not make my own path studying under real principals then my training would always be fake or phony on some level. At that time I chose to walk away.

 

Only within the last year have I resummed karate training, again in the same traditional karate style but this time round I am applying the principals.

[Grunt]

AGKK_Karateka,

 

You're response has me quite intrigued! Can you please elaborate on the following:

My reaction was so intense that I made a mental descision that if I could not make my own path studying under real principals then my training would always be fake or phony on some level. At that time I chose to walk away.

 

What real principles were you looking for? Why did you need those principles in order to pursue your study? How do you feel your training would be fake/phony without these principles? Are you saying that because you felt this way you could NOT continue with your training? Again, I'm quite fascinated by your response and would appreciate hearing more of your thoughts. Thanks!

 

Grunt