Kyle-san Posted April 12, 2003 Posted April 12, 2003 I doubt it - look what bjj has done in mma over the years. How they train makes all the difference. If jduo guys are used to hard randori on a regular basis, where as the jj guys couldn't do that because their stuff was "too deadly". Consequently, the judoka were more prepared for the shiai. I agree that training makes all the difference, which is why it's hard to make general statements about one art or another. I've known Judo dojo where their training was fairly slack and, as a result, they weren't nearly as well prepared as the Jujutsu-ka from the dojo across town.
SevenStar Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 he's probably saying that the connotation of sport or combat doesn't matter much, for various reasons that are currently being debated on other threads. also sport techniques are easily modified, as I pointed out in my above post.
Kensai Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 I agree sevenstar. Exactly the point I was making. In general, and this is the opinion I have picked up from many a Martial Art form. Traditional Jujutsu guys just down train as hard and sweet very little. I am not knocking JJ, I love the systems. But I do think that gaining a "dose" of reality (I know Randori is not real), but against someone that wants to beat you really helps. It compliments the Aikido I do well, and helps me see what I could do for real. I think doing a sport art really helps traditional system practioners.
Kyle-san Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 I agree sevenstar. Exactly the point I was making. In general, and this is the opinion I have picked up from many a Martial Art form. Traditional Jujutsu guys just down train as hard and sweet very little. I am not knocking JJ, I love the systems. But I do think that gaining a "dose" of reality (I know Randori is not real), but against someone that wants to beat you really helps. It compliments the Aikido I do well, and helps me see what I could do for real. I think doing a sport art really helps traditional system practioners. Wait, I must be missing something. Where does the assumption that a traditional JJ student doesn't train hard come from?
Kensai Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 I always try to assume very little. And put my opinions together based on as many facts as possible. From what I have read from texts of Masters like Kano (whom studied TJJ for sometime). Because TJJ techniques cant be practiced at full resistance (for whatever reason), the time spent training is more geared towards "study", same goes for Arts like Aikido, WC, CLF, Shaolin..... I was not disrespecting the methods. But fighting in Randori (as I have learned to my distress), is very different from doing one attack one defence work. However Kyle San, no disrespect was intended. But I have seen TJJ places where there is no sweet coming off them at all. I know this does not apply to all, but its one of the reasons for writing what I did.
Kyle-san Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 However Kyle San, no disrespect was intended. But I have seen TJJ places where there is no sweet coming off them at all. I know this does not apply to all, but its one of the reasons for writing what I did. Fair enough, but as it's been pointed out many times before one particular school doesn't necessarily speak for the style as a whole. I can say the same thing about not seeing people sweat for almost every martial art, it all depends on the dojo. I should point out that the Ketto Ryu dojo I attended regularily practiced stand-up contact sparring, randori, submissions grappling, and a combination of the three, as well as situational defences. The reason that full resistance isn't used when in practice is usually because the move is a break or other seriously damaging technique. Personally, I wouldn't want to resist when someone is working on dislocating my shoulder and breaking my elbow in one combination.
SevenStar Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 The reason that full resistance isn't used when in practice is usually because the move is a break or other seriously damaging technique. Personally, I wouldn't want to resist when someone is working on dislocating my shoulder and breaking my elbow in one combination. same with judo and bjj. that's why people tap...
Kyle-san Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 same with judo and bjj. that's why people tap... And I completely understand that, which is partly where I'm getting confused. If the condition is the same in all three arts, why are people labelling JJ with that particular excuse?
Treebranch Posted April 24, 2003 Posted April 24, 2003 I read an article by a MA historian and he said that BJJ and GJJ is closer to the original traditional Judo than it is to Jujitsu. I'll try to find that link, but it made a lot of sense. So basically it would be Brazilian Judo, or Gracie Judo, still pretty cool. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
SevenStar Posted April 28, 2003 Posted April 28, 2003 I read an article by a MA historian and he said that BJJ and GJJ is closer to the original traditional Judo than it is to Jujitsu. I'll try to find that link, but it made a lot of sense. So basically it would be Brazilian Judo, or Gracie Judo, still pretty cool. That's true. Helio Gracie was a small man, and modified his judo ground work to make it fit him the way he desired.
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