What's wrong with karate?

[AndrewGreen]

Bad mouthing of another martial are is one way some people think they are showing their superiority when actually they are displaying their ignorance. The biggest majority of the time someone keeps going on about how the martial art they do is the greatest they have less than 2 years in training. Yes, there are exceptions but most who have a need to put their foot in their mouth don't even realize what they are chewing on.

 

In part I think you are "sort of" correct. Different styles serve different purposes. If someone studies an art which is for a specific purpose it should be clear to them that other arts and methods are less suited for that purpose. Studying towards the goal of fighting against other fighters in a minimal/no rules environment is one goal. Many arts are poorly suited to that goal, in fact most traditional styles are.

 

That doesn't mean they are no good, just not good for that goal. AT the same time if your goal is to be a martial arts movie star and "real" fighting art is not a good choice.

 

There are also personal limits as to how far each person is willing to go. No face contact, no grappling and minimal bumps and bruises may be the conditions neccessary for someone to train. Not everyone is willing to do those things. They deserve an option as well.

 

There are lines I won't cross, same for most people.

 

Now the "problem" is that full contact fighters, Mixed martial artists, etc. come out and say this art is not as good for fighting full contact (real fights ARE full contact) very often they are right. Thats not what that "art" does. Grapplers come out and say this art can't fight on the ground, they can't thats not what they do.

 

Problem is everyone wants to be "the big bad" and they are not. If you're training is not full contact, a full contact fighter will beat you. If you don't train all ranges, someone who does will beat you.

 

I don't think that makes arts that don't "bad", it just makes them not as good for that purpose. But not everyone is willing to do those things, and they shouldn't have to.

 

But I do think that they should admit that they don't and we could all get along much better. But some of those that don't still want to claim to have the "best" stuff. So naturally they get annoyed when they get told they don't, and those that tell them they do get annoyed as well because they do those things. They put in the work, do the conditioning, get the bruises and pay in blood and sweat. Then they get these others who don't tell them how they are better, or "just as good" despite not doing the "dirty work".

 

Now yes I've stepped on a lot of toes, and yes I've made some pretty big generalizations. There are some "traditional" schools which do train hard and fight hard, but that is no longer the norm. Just like we think keypad and not rotary dial when we picture a phone. Some have the dial, but most don't.

I would like to say a few other things while at the same time not crossing over the line and being too inappropriate myself.

 

Cross the lines, you'll feel better. The lines need to be crossed. If we all just dance around being PC about everything we might as well admit that Tae Bo can be as effective in the UFC, if used by the right person in the right way.

 

It can't, anyone who says so is full of it. Nothing wrong with tae bo though, thats just not what it does...

[Beer-monster]

We all seem to be forgetting that Karate as it exists todayis not actually designed for street fighting. Funakoshi sensei and men of his ilk designed modern Karate syllabi around educating people in focus, respect and temperance as well as keeping fit.

 

Such an attitude had "encrypted" Karate, but that doesn't mean that what can be decyphered isn't valuable. Karate can be an effective and brutal form of combat.

 

All it takes is a decoder ring we all have. Common sense. A person can see which techniques would and would not work in the street e.g. why you shouldn't kick to the head, why you should not stand in Front stance doing solid blocks. It is also obvious to see the gaps in the sytle such as heavy groundwork, and train to compensate.

 

Karate gives what you put in. If you want a hobby that will teach you respect and exercise, go to a Mc Dojo, learn a kata, go through the motions until it looks pretty and get yourself a fancy black pant holder.

 

If you want a martial art which will teach all of the above but help ypou defend yourself, look deeper, understand your kata, and ask questions.

 

When would I use this techniques in the pub? Would this really work if my life was on the line? What can I do if I get taken to the ground? How can I avoid it? What is this stance for? Is this really a block or could it be something else? What if the attacker had friends, with knives and bottles, how would Karate help then?

 

Ask yourself, and explore your Kata. If you get no answers, ask your instructor. If he does not know the answer, or his answer does not fit it with common sense or the realities of a fight, find a better teacher.

 

Not to get all biblical, But seek and ye shall find.

[AndrewGreen]

Yes and no.

 

Do you really think that martial arts "should" be cryptic? Why not just skip that nonsense and get right to something useful?

 

If not, then how can you say karate is effective, if it has a poor teaching method? Which really is the issue, the teaching/training methods associated with different arts as they will dictate technique.

 

Also we have available to us far more information on everything relevant to the martial arts then those Okinwans did 100 years ago, we should be able to do better then they did.

 

My 286 is just as effective as your pentium 4... If I replace the motherboard, the hard drive, add more ram, upgrade the videocard, etc. Initally it had all that stuff, but it got simplified for mass consumption.

 

Even if that is true, why bother? Why get a downgraded computer that you could reupgrade when you could get a state of the art one right away?

[Beer-monster]

The same reason why they don't use state of the art technology on the space shuttle. It hasnt been tried and tested by 500 years history.

 

But don't misunderstand me. I wasn't suggesting overhauling Karate (maybe a little augmentation in groundfighting but thats it). Its just the training methods of Modern Karate do focus on enriching the mind,body and spirit. Not on self defence.

 

But with a little work and intelligence the focus can be shifted back to a fight, all it takes is see whats wrong and whats right, asking the right questions, and sparring the right way.

 

For example the mawashi geri is often trained in lines, going forwards and backwards and kicking to the head. it doesn't take a genius to see that moving to the side and kicking to the leg ( knee) area would be better in a fight. By realising this and occasionally practising this modification in sparring and on your own, you make it more applicable.

 

You're are not adding anything to the style or practicing a different martial art, you are just doing the science and not the art. Karate-jitsu not Karate-do.

 

Common sense is a virtue we all have, it allows us to determine the rtue path instead of following blindly.

[HachiKyu]

really every martial art has its advantages and disadvantages its on how you can make either one more stronger in a personal way... karate like shotokan for example has a lot of linear and parallel stances everything is straight up and down or side to side where as kung fu lets you be more free in that the stances can have some curves in it... Ive taken both arts so i would know first hand as would anyone else who taken two different arts... its like when someone says the grass is green and someone else see's that its brown... not everyone has the same opinion on things just as not everyone has the same opinion on which martial art is the best.

[MuayThai Fighter]

I've seen many post today kind of bad mouthing karate. One of them list it as the least effective art for self defense. The other said that most karate students woudln't be able to defeat a jiu-jisu student. I won't mention who's post it is. But give me valid reasons why karate is not good. Or why it is inferior to the other arts.

 

To some people,I may have been considered to have bad mouth karate although I only gave my opinions from my own experience and compared to Muay Thai.

 

Karate is a great martial arts no doubt,but it depends why you chose to do martial arts,like any other art.

 

For example: In my opinion,like I say my opion,I think karate is great if all you want to do is practice forms,but not worth doing if you joined martial arts for self-defense purposes.My reason for this only comes from my own experience.I truly believe to be a good martial arts fighter you have to spar,I mean full contact spar,no B.S point sparring.

 

That's why I believe Muay Thai to be the best for stand up and also agree that jujitsu would beat any traditional arts that practice forms,when it comes to ground.Although I don't find karate and other arts to be practical whether stand up or not,I'd have to say karate would beat jujitsu in stand up,but obviously not on the ground.

 

But once again,that's my opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.

[MuayThai Fighter]

Bad mouthing of another martial are is one way some people think they are showing their superiority when actually they are displaying their ignorance. The biggest majority of the time someone keeps going on about how the martial art they do is the greatest they have less than 2 years in training. Yes, there are exceptions but most who have a need to put their foot in their mouth don't even realize what they are chewing on.

 

In part I think you are "sort of" correct. Different styles serve different purposes. If someone studies an art which is for a specific purpose it should be clear to them that other arts and methods are less suited for that purpose. Studying towards the goal of fighting against other fighters in a minimal/no rules environment is one goal. Many arts are poorly suited to that goal, in fact most traditional styles are.

 

That doesn't mean they are no good, just not good for that goal. AT the same time if your goal is to be a martial arts movie star and "real" fighting art is not a good choice.

 

There are also personal limits as to how far each person is willing to go. No face contact, no grappling and minimal bumps and bruises may be the conditions neccessary for someone to train. Not everyone is willing to do those things. They deserve an option as well.

 

There are lines I won't cross, same for most people.

 

Now the "problem" is that full contact fighters, Mixed martial artists, etc. come out and say this art is not as good for fighting full contact (real fights ARE full contact) very often they are right. Thats not what that "art" does. Grapplers come out and say this art can't fight on the ground, they can't thats not what they do.

 

Problem is everyone wants to be "the big bad" and they are not. If you're training is not full contact, a full contact fighter will beat you. If you don't train all ranges, someone who does will beat you.

 

I don't think that makes arts that don't "bad", it just makes them not as good for that purpose. But not everyone is willing to do those things, and they shouldn't have to.

 

But I do think that they should admit that they don't and we could all get along much better. But some of those that don't still want to claim to have the "best" stuff. So naturally they get annoyed when they get told they don't, and those that tell them they do get annoyed as well because they do those things. They put in the work, do the conditioning, get the bruises and pay in blood and sweat. Then they get these others who don't tell them how they are better, or "just as good" despite not doing the "dirty work".

 

Now yes I've stepped on a lot of toes, and yes I've made some pretty big generalizations. There are some "traditional" schools which do train hard and fight hard, but that is no longer the norm. Just like we think keypad and not rotary dial when we picture a phone. Some have the dial, but most don't.

I would like to say a few other things while at the same time not crossing over the line and being too inappropriate myself.

 

Cross the lines, you'll feel better. The lines need to be crossed. If we all just dance around being PC about everything we might as well admit that Tae Bo can be as effective in the UFC, if used by the right person in the right way.

 

It can't, anyone who says so is full of it. Nothing wrong with tae bo though, thats just not what it does...

 

I 100% agree,couldn't have said it better,guess that's why lots of fights started in my first post when I was saying Muay Thai is best for stand up.I tried explaining that traditional arts aren't good for fighting for same reason you mentioned but good arts no doubt in other ways,it all depends why you want to do martial arts,but I guess it came out wrong so almost everyone started ganging up on me.

[Beer-monster]

It is true that Karate fighters are often unprepared for self-defense because of a lack fc sparring. But that is a flaw of the instructors and the practicioners, not the art, and is such beyond the arguement.

 

Although I practise and love ju-jitsu I will always in some ways consider myself a karateka. I train to unleash Karate's potential as a self-defense art, practise kata with full force and intent, I analyse the movements to find the most effective streetwise bunkai. And I spar without the desire for points but to learn and improve. I'm not afraid of a few bruises and neither are my training partners, although i were hand pads and take precausions so we dont kill each other. I also practise violent strikes to vital area such as the eyes, bridge of nose, throat and groin.

 

I can still use karate in this type of sparring and in the street because of such effort, but I am still using Karate. The reason why many Karateka cannot hold their own in the street is their own fault and the fault of their MCDojo instructors, not the arts. The art is effective brutal and sound.

[WhiteBelt]

Ok, so most schools do not teach karate for fighting and self defense as well as say, a MT school. How do you incorporate, or fix, the karate school and keep the spiritual aspect? There are some people that want to learn everything that karate and MA have to offer, not just fighting.

[AndrewGreen]

Give me a specific example of something spiritual learnt in a karate school.