What's wrong with karate?

[AndrewGreen]

It's not the martial art, it's the martial artist Enough said from me

 

Nah, thats just Politically correct nonsense that hopes to not offend anyone.

 

Not all "styles" ( I don't like that word though) are equal, some are good, some are really good, and some are just bad. Of course the good and the bad ones will differ depending on what you want to do with it.

 

Olympic style TKD is really lousy for MMA, BJJ is really lousy for Olympic TKD.

 

If the goal is "real" fighting ability the same will hold true

[SaiFightsMS]

Bad mouthing of another martial are is one way some people think they are showing their superiority when actually they are displaying their ignorance. The biggest majority of the time someone keeps going on about how the martial art they do is the greatest they have less than 2 years in training. Yes, there are exceptions but most who have a need to put their foot in their mouth don't even realize what they are chewing on.

 

I would like to say a few other things while at the same time not crossing over the line and being too inappropriate myself.

[ramymensa]

You tell them Sai .. and then I'll come continue

 

I've tried to study a little the big "bashers" here (is there such a word?) and I've also noticed that with some exceptions we are dealing with people who have been involved just a little in MA.

 

In the first months there's a lot of passion and so little ration ... after some time it gets into equlibrium.

 

The most important thing is to remember we are not the same, we want different things in life and we have the right to chose our way. The others have the same rights

 

So respect and friendship. We all have to learn from all here

[TJS]

My thoughts on Karate, first off you cant lump all of it together.

 

-My first problem is the lack of ground fighting/clinch fighting

 

-lack of punching to the face.

 

-Lack of real sparring/realistic fighting/self defense

 

-BUT there are hardcore Karate schools, If i had to take Karate it Would be Kyokoshin. Kyokoshin has proven itself to be an effective and tough standup fighting style.

 

For those comparing Karate to BJJ, I hate to break it to you but unless you trained to avoid takedowns and trained some groundfighitng you are going to lose to someone who is profficent at BJJ. Anyone see UFC 1-4?

 

That is not a bash on Karate, the same is true for any standup fighting stlye from Muay thai to Karate..unless you cross train in some sort of grappling you will be a fish out of water.

[BKJ1216]

My thoughts on Karate, first off you cant lump all of it together.

 

-My first problem is the lack of ground fighting/clinch fighting

 

-lack of punching to the face.

 

-Lack of real sparring/realistic fighting/self defense

 

-BUT there are hardcore Karate schools, If i had to take Karate it Would be Kyokoshin. Kyokoshin has proven itself to be an effective and tough standup fighting style.

 

For those comparing Karate to BJJ, I hate to break it to you but unless you trained to avoid takedowns and trained some groundfighitng you are going to lose to someone who is profficent at BJJ. Anyone see UFC 1-4?

 

That is not a bash on Karate, the same is true for any standup fighting stlye from Muay thai to Karate..unless you cross train in some sort of grappling you will be a fish out of water.

Well I think the reason there is no ground fighting, is because your not suposed to wind up on the ground. The punches to the face, probably has something to do with the head being a hard target. The thing about sparring, totally untru. I went to my dojo on sunday. They can choose at what level they want to sparr, and what leverl of realism they want. BBJ probably could give a lot of students a probelm, because they weren't trained to deal with ground attacks. In the concept of self defense, how often is the average joe going to start doing BJJ on you?

[shotochem]

My thoughts on Karate, first off you cant lump all of it together.

 

-My first problem is the lack of ground fighting/clinch fighting

 

-lack of punching to the face.

 

-Lack of real sparring/realistic fighting/self defense

 

For those comparing Karate to BJJ, I hate to break it to you but unless you trained to avoid takedowns and trained some groundfighitng you are going to lose to someone who is profficent at BJJ. Anyone see UFC 1-4?

 

.

True there is little ground work in Karate.

 

We do punch to the face (controlled).

 

We do spar, not just for points but we free spar head contact is allowed

 

for upper belts. We also cover SD techniques and pressure points.

 

The UFC is still a sport. It has rules. The rules tend to favor a grappler.

 

It is not a reasonable demonstration of either arts skills and or weaknesses. If the striker is taken to the ground the grappler has the advantage. Standing up the striker has the edge. In a real situation a

 

karateka is not trying to score points he is striking to disable. When is comes to self preservation it is a whole different ballgame.

[psychospaz]

If you train to fight you'll be a better fighter. You can do that with a heavy bag, a sparring partner or even kata. Karate also does sparring too, its not all kata. Whatever style and school you choose, look into it and try a free class if they'll let you so you can see if you like what you see.

[TJS]

the reason there is no ground fighting, is because your not suposed to wind up on the ground

 

yes i would prefer not to get punched in a fight but that dosent mean it wont happen, what if you trip, what if you get tackled by suprise then all the training you have ever know just went out the window and now things are equal.

 

Do you learn takedown defense then? Since you arent supposed to go down, I have never seen it.

In the concept of self defense, how often is the average joe going to start doing BJJ on you?

 

well once someone realizes they dont want ot trade with you their first instict is proabably going to be to close the distance and clinch-anotehr area karate dosent cover..from there it's alot harder to stay up.

The UFC is still a sport. It has rules. The rules tend to favor a grappler

 

The rules were no biting and no eye gouging...Royce got bitten by Gerard and he still got choked out...so basically you argument stands on eye gouging...yes it can be important..but i wouldent base my entire ability to fight one it.

 

once again im not bashin all karate I just think there are certain elemnts of the fight it ignores.

[chh]

I train in a traditional karate dojo. We learn and practice take-downs, ground fighting, and fighting close/clinching. No, we don't train in that sort of thing as much you might in another art, as pointless as THAT statement is. I just get tired of seeing these sweeping generalizations of what karate does and doesn't cover. Just my 2p

[omnifinite]

Joe "Aspiring Martial Artist" Schmoe decides to find a school. He starts with Karate at the YMCA because it's cheapest and he already has a membership. He gets bored with all the katas he's told to do without being told what they're for (the instructor probably doesn't know), and doesn't get to do any "hardcore" training because people don't go to the YMCA to get beat up. Joe decides to start looking at dojos, but most of them were opened by 2nd dans who learned from McDojos themselves and are more concerned with looking cool and flaunting their belts than giving serious thought to the mechanics of combat (as far as they're concerned they know everything there is to know). Joe gives up on Karate and notices a BJJ school. Since BJJ hasn't been around for decades it hasn't had the chance to get watered down and McDojo-fied yet (not to mention its higher-ups being more willing to share their most advanced knowledge with other cultures), so the techniques they're teaching really work and are very impressive. Joe's new teacher tells him all about the problems with "traditional" (somehow synonymous with "stagnant") arts and how useless and silly arts like Karate are. Joe hasn't seen anything that would suggest otherwise so he figures, "Wow, it's true, all those people are just kidding themselves." Joe then finds a martial arts forum online and shares his newfound wisdom with the world. He talks about all the things that are wrong with "Karate", and they happen to be all the same things people with real Karate backgrounds are just as sick of seeing in today's dojos. Joe has probably never seen anything even remotely resembling what Karate used to be (and still is for those lucky enough to find a real teacher in an ocean of frauds).

 

That's my personal opinion on what's "wrong" with Karate. And before someone jumps down my throat, that's just a hypothetical story of hundreds of possibilities. Some YMCAs have good teachers. Not all schools are run by know-it-all recent black belts. Etc etc. The specifics aren't the point.

 

The arts that were popular decades ago have had a long time to get mangled in the ego/money-machine. It seems like Karate and TKD are a few of the ones hit the worst. So just because a school has a sign saying Karate or TKD doesn't mean that's what they're teaching. Often it's just a bizarre caricature of the art with no teeth or spirit left whatsoever. And yet people seem more than eager to attack the art itself before attacking those corrupting it... I have no idea why.

 

That's how I feel about it. I don't know if this is going to cause some kind of silly repetitive argument, but that seems to be unavoidable on the forum lately anyway.