What's wrong with karate?

[TJS]

a double leg takedown? my friend who does BJJ tried to do that on me I just front kicked him in the stomach and he flew back

 

and keep in mind karate has leg trips as well (well my style does)

 

lol, if someone was shooting and you kick them they are not going to "fly" anywhere ...it's just physics.

 

obviously some people dont know how to shoot properly.

[AndrewGreen]

"I can hit you in the head a lot harder with a glove then without."

 

I take it you do not punch much?

 

From your comments I could almost assume you have never punched at a real person before. But I won't do that, because I don't know you.

 

Punches with light gloves are more powerful then without. Why? because the gloves protect the hands more then the head.

Yes it does, they can run, pass and tackle faster farther longer. They can make plays work better than the average schmoe.

 

Nope, same skills and tactics.

 

You forget that they are also playing against someone at there own level. A NFL team in a high school league would be another issue. Then they could do different things, but they're not so they stick to the basics, which are performed better both defensively and offensively.

it is easy to throw a punchs to knock someone out. It is not a terribly hard skill to learn.

 

Effective punching is a very complex skill, have you ever fought someone with boxing experience?

Then again Mcdojos took out tegumi.

 

Yeah whatever. I could also say that the McDojo's are the ones that try to sell students on "lost" secret skills with foreign names, like "tegumi".

 

What is the Okinawan term for keylock from mount? or the Okinawan term for scissor sweep? Double leg takedown? Ankle pick? Whizzer?

[Starturtle]

This is my unbiased analysis of Grapling vs Karate.

 

First off, why are these two being compared? Karate teaches grapling and grapling teaches strikes, just not to the same degrees as the opposing system.

 

With that said,

 

I belive karate would win in a fight with a pure or mostly pure grapler, simply because both participants start on their feet. The grapler must get me down before he can harm me. Some arguments for this is a full out charge at my leg. Not to sound stupid or anything, but why not move? A sidestep followed up with a quick knuckle punch and side kick would end the fight quickly. Im not putting down grapling at all - I plan to take JuJitsu once I reach my green belt. But Their are two many ways IMO that karate could counter a charge, which would be the only way to close distance fast enough. I will, of course, also admit that if put on the ground, the grapler can end the fight with one choke/hold. What it comes down to is Skill in each martial art. If the skills are both low level, then I would say karate would probably win. If the combatants are both 1 dan and up, it comes to their knowledge of both systems, not just their own, to win.

 

This is only my opinion. I can not speak for any martial art style other than Nippon Karate-do Genwa Kai Style Karate and Sankai style jujitsu (my dojo teaches both). This is an extremely limited field of experience I know, but hopefully this will help stop this crazy feud.

[TJS]

I belive karate would win in a fight with a pure or mostly pure grapler, simply because both participants start on their feet. The grapler must get me down before he can harm me

 

I can save with 100% certainty you are wrong on this issue... time and time again this debate has been proven if you dont know grappling you will loose to a grappler

 

did you ever watch UFC 1-5...if you honestly think you can knockout someone before they get you down then you have never fought a grappler.

 

here is a video of a 1st dan Shotokan Black belt vs a BJJ'er ..nine times out of 10 this is what that fight would look like.

 

http://www.bullshido.us/dl_goto.asp?id=64

 

here is another example

 

http://www.bullshido.us/dl_goto.asp?id=23

[Starturtle]

No, I do not watch UFC. And no, I have never sparred a grappler (ill be starting that about next year, as i previously stated). Notice I also claimed that in order to win you must know both systems (or at least some of the OpFor's Sys).

 

And I never said I'd KO them in one move. But if your charging me, I have more options than you do. If your over 10' away, I can do Knife attacks, Elbow strikes, Knee strikes, and kicks. If your close up, lateral Elbow or a knee strike will stop you. Even if you have abbs of steal, running full swing into my knee strike will probably slow you down just a bit. If the elbo strike hits, you will probably be knocked out. Of course, if your not hit with enough force from these attacks to stop you, youll be on top of me, and that is a bad place for me to be.

 

Maybe you are right though. Im sure you have more expierence in a match of this type. My entire thesis in this situation is that whoever is doing Karate can hit the grapler before he is put on the ground. If he is put on the ground, its grapple vs grapple anyways, and its no longer about karate.

[TJS]

I understand the point you were trying to make, but think of i the other way around? can you do enough damge to complety stop a grappler before he shoots for the clinch or a takedown..most train very hard at not getting hit in the procces.

[AndrewGreen]

I think that most striking people, especially traditionalists, really lack in knowledge about takedowns.

 

Shooting is a very well developed skill, it is not simply charge at him and try to grab him. Shoots are set up and designed to go past the lines of defence.

 

Grapplers are more aware of striking then strikers are of grappling. Probably just because striking is much more visible. Boxing, kickboxing and Muay thai all get tv time. Wrestling (not WWE) and submission don't.

 

And anyone who hasn't seen the first few UFC's really should watch them. They where the closest to pure style vs style fights in a big event.

[TJS]

Shooting is a very well developed skill, it is not simply charge at him and try to grab him. Shoots are set up and designed to go past the lines of defence.

 

exactly..too many people understimante their ability to defend a takedown.

 

UFC 1-5 should definetly be something everyone has seen.

[Rich]

Again lack of distinction between street attacks and MMA sparring here plus lack of knowledge that the martial art of karate contains strikes, locks, holds, throws, gouges, grabs etc. etc.- all to weak points.

 

Having said this don't get too cocky cos a shoot is very hard to defend against using the defenses mentioned above!

[superleeds]

The shotokan dude fought like crap.Does anyone have a link to free downloas of the first UFC's??