Kensai Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 I personally believe, that grappling both standing (trapping?) and ground work, are the most important ranges. Not only is this my preference in terms of the way I would like to "dispatch" any would be attacker. But this is also backed up by research into the most common attacks on Doormen (Bouncers). This was done by Self Defence expert Geoff Tompson. I also believe that it is the most important range for women to learn. As most attacks on women are going to be (IMHO) one on one in a dark ally with a larger un-doubtably dishonourable sicko. And unless you train in striking a lot (in excess of say 10 hours a week), it will be most unlikely you will hurt a larger opponent. Where as grappling works even for the littlest people. However, I damn good striker of any style can mess you up if you have no idea how to deal with them.
RKOSMIC1 Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 striking, and grappling, (standing and ground ) is better than just one style, we have seen ( UFC ) that mixed training is the most effective,, =0
monkeygirl Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 Amen, Kensai. My dojo had a self-defense class last fall that I helped to teach. We were working on a ground technique (attacker is inside defender's guard, defender does basic scissors defense), and had the students pair off together to work on it. One such pair of students consisted of two big guys. When I say big, I mean pretty darn burly...probably upwards of 200 pounds each. I came over to them to see how they were coming with the technique, and one of them claimed that the technique couldn't possibly work for a smaller person. I decided to demonstrate on the guy who made the comment. I had him flat on his back in 5 seconds The best part of it...I don't even weigh half as much as he did. Grappling is definitely important for anyone to learn, especially women, as Kensai said. For one thing, if an attacker has me in a mount position, and is pinning my arms, hand striking isn't much of an option. Knees are out of the question too, since they'll only hit his back, with minimal power. However, ground fighting/grappling techniques can get me out of the situation. 1st dan & Asst. Instructor TKD 2000-2003No matter the tune...if you can rock it, rock it hard.
Venezolano Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 I think grappling is very important as striking is. Althought most fights ends on the ground, they begin standup, so you have to be efficient in both. Valencia - Venezuela.
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 yep grappling is very important no matter what some people say "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim"
fskarateoz Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 I don't understand this 'most fights end up on the ground' thing... a good deal of the fights i have been in have ended with one guy on the ground in pain, but very rarely grappling. I'm not saying grappling is useless, because i am very much in favour of groundfighting, but even when people r on the ground they are throwing punches (which is what i do a lot of the time)... I think i've only been on the ground twice in a real fight. Most of the time fights have ended with either my opponent or myself on the ground in a good deal of pain, mainly head pain... fskarateoz I'm a pretty straight forward guy, and people often tell me that i remind them of someone they once met... Although not necessarily face to face...
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 3, 2003 Author Posted March 3, 2003 I was saying is it is important to know grappling,because in a real fight where anything goes at times even the best striker can end up on the ground against a good grappler but it can also work the other way around too.There is no guarantee who will go down to the ground first,either way whether it is the striker or the grappler,at least one of them is going to end up on the ground,hopefully it won't be the striker,the grappler fights best on the ground though and a striker is meant for stand up. Well it's my experience of so many years of stand up and now having to know both that shows me,that grappling is important even against the best stand up fighter,just as stand up is important against a good grappler.That's good that you don't underestimate what a good striker can do,no one should,as a stand up fighter myself I know what we are capable of doing,but I don't underestimate what a good grappler can do either,that's exactly why I say it is important to know both. Infact it would be hard for a grappler to just automatically get a striker to the ground,but should he be able to,you must know how to fight back while on the ground.This is the point I was trying to make. For example: In UFC if a grappler manages to shoot in on the striker and the striker can't fight once he is taken down you'll see him lose,however if he knows both he has higher chance of winning.This doesn't mean a striker can't necessarily win from a good strike,punch or kick while he is standing up. If you want to compare stand up and grappling as individual arts instead of mixed,alot of times at least in UFC anyways,it's the grappler that wins,the gracies proved that over and over again in the UFC fights when UFC first began.They were good for waiting for the perfect moment for a striker to make a move and shoot in and take the striker down.Although in a real fight that would be hard to do. Although trained in both stand up and grappling,I only fight muay thai because I'm best at muaythai,I'm not very good on ground.Against your average person on street I may do good at both stand up and grappling but against a good grappler,I wouldn't do so good on the ground,I'm okay but could do way better. To fight against a grappler I know I'd better take him out with punches,kicks,knees,elbows etc and hurt him so he can't take me to the ground. Well it's my experience of so many years of stand up and now having to know both that shows me,that grappling is important even against the best stand up fighter.That's good that you don't underestimate what a good striker can do,no one should,as a stand up fighter myself I know what we are capable of doing,but I don't underestimate what a good grappler can do either,that's exactly why I say it is important to know both. I know I can fight good at stand up both for competition and street,but if I came across a good grappler on street,either I'd beat him by hitting him hard enough for me to be able to take off or even be able to knock him out so he can't take me to the ground or he might take me to the ground no matter how many kicks or punches I throw.It could work either way. Lets for example say we're both fighting stand up and you end up being able to take me to the ground,now you're on top of me throwing punches,if I don't know grappling I won't be able to get out of that position you have me in,and obviously you'd win.Now lets say I do know how to grapple,then even if you take me to ground and try and pin me down chances are I'll be able to free myself and fight you off while I'm still on my back.Without the grappling I'd be history and you would have won. Lets even say you know stand up and I only know grappling,if I manage to shoot in on you before you strike and take you to the ground,would you as someone who knows nothing about grappling be able to get back on your feet? I doubt it. Now you come across someone that knows both grappling and stand up and is good at both,then it won't matter if you take him down because either way,he'll be able to defend himself unless you are lucky enough to just knock him out within the first 30 seconds,while you were both standing,which is unlikely,since he won't be standing there waiting for you to punch him,he'll be fighting back. My point is you can be a great stand up fighter or a great grappler which is good if that's what you want your training to be like,however on the street if you only have experience in one of them,as a stand up fighter you better hope to god,that the grappler is unable to shoot in on you and take you down,just as much as the grappler better hope the stand up fighter doesn't manage to kick the crap out of him before that happens,so to be an all rounded fighter you need grappling.Face it any art without grappling is unbalanced just as any art with just grappling and no stand up experience.You can't have one without the other.You can compete in just one but on the street it is a different story.
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 3, 2003 Author Posted March 3, 2003 striking, and grappling, (standing and ground ) is better than just one style, we have seen ( UFC ) that mixed training is the most effective,, I agree.
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 3, 2003 Author Posted March 3, 2003 I think grappling is very important as striking is. Althought most fights ends on the ground, they begin standup, so you have to be efficient in both. Very true.Point I've been trying to make to some of the people in this thread.
Stold Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 In a real fight, stand up is good. Ground is bad. The only problem is we will sometimes get forced onto the ground and put into the bad. The answer? Train grappling.
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