ramymensa Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 Well ... I'm quite preocupied with it Let me explain: I'm doing Shotokan at my University. Our sensei started a self defence course for the students who would like to learn somehing in thi matter. I'm there too, with my best friend in order to have some fun and learn something more. The problem is ... for us it's a walk in the park (being used with the tough training in karate) ... the others though don't seem to last long. They are out of shape ... know nothing regarding techniqies and so on. The 2 of us are always helping, but it's like I'm teaching music to a deaf ... And so I came to the conclusion ... Sometimes it's good to have some prior MA training. When you know some basics ... then you can go and build more technique. For us it's simple and efficient ... but they ... well ... suck Another thing I'm concerned ... there are times the newbies come to the self defence class, learn some throws, falls, blocks, kicks and tend to feel good about themselves ... thinking they are senseis. Then it comes to trouble, cause in a real encounter they wouldn't stand a chance, although they feel like Gods ... I think it important to tell them million of times they are not prepared for a conflict and that in order to have a chance they have to train very hard and often. Has got anybody something to add? I'd be glad to have some opinions here. And please ... we are not talking styles here. i don't want to hear TKD is useless for self defence or Aikido or Muay Thay. World Shotokan Karate
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 spar with them in class and make them understand they are not gods, do this by beating them in sparring alot, this will break down their "im a god" character than , when they start becoming proficient in the techniques they're character will be rebuilt "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim"
BKJ1216 Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 Well I don't know if your talking karate here but I've alwasy thought humility was one of the pirnciples of it. I don't think you should be so arrogant about it. Instead of just complaining about it, next time your sparring give them something they don't expect. Just remind them that they're not great and there is people better than them. Hey btw how great is shotokan compared to shudokan, I'm still trying to get a style comparison. White Belt- Shudokan Karate
ramymensa Posted February 22, 2003 Author Posted February 22, 2003 Well I don't know if your talking karate here but I've alwasy thought humility was one of the pirnciples of it. I don't think you should be so arrogant about it. Instead of just complaining about it, next time your sparring give them something they don't expect. Just remind them that they're not great and there is people better than them. Well I'm not arrogant, justy concerned I don't sparr them. Not yet. It would be like beating a 3 year old kid. I don't do such things. I show them blocks, kicks and so on. I wouldn't sparr them until they've learned something. They get scared when I and my friend get near them to show them how it's done, because when we show them in general the move I and the instructor show the moves real slow and after that "the real thing" Seeing us so "deadly" frightenes them Of course when they go out it's them (who do self-defence) and the others And their ego gets high I'm more concerned in helping them improve and finding a miraculous way to make them better in short time. I'd like to help them, but it's hard, that's why I thought if they had some MA training before, things would be more easy World Shotokan Karate
chh Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 I know what you mean. My sensei has been asked to do single-session 'self defense for women' classes a couple times, I know he's uncomfortable with them because he's afraid of causing false self-confidence. They spend an hour practicing defenses against 4 or 5 attacks and feel empowered. It's hard to know if they understand that sure, these moves are good to know, but if you get attacked the chances that your attacker will use the "right" attack (the one you know a defense to!) and that you'll be able to overcome the panic response and think fast enough to actually use the defense are virtually nil. So, Sensei looks at classes like this more like a demo to attract new students to the dojo, and explains several times that one class could never be enough. Although, like an ongoing once-a-week SD class? That could be a good thing, not to get into shape or become a fighter but to get used to the very simple things that can paralyze people with fear in an attack. Someone coming at you fast, invading your personal space, grabbing your wrists...and then the defense part, deflecting, striking at the face, becoming comfortable with inflicting damage. Particularly for women it's not unusual to have never struck another human being in their entire lives, doing so would just never come naturally. Really I think it's a good idea. A night for the regular students to focus on self-defense (and teaching skills, as you're doing) and for outsiders to learn whatever they can, and of course it's another way to bring in new students. The average person probably thinks training hard 4/5/more times a week is a bit nutty, that doesn't mean they can't learn anything!
BKJ1216 Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 Well you really shoudl just remind them that they're not really that great. Somehow talk to them or something, just pop in an innocent blow when they're least expecting it, just to show them that they've still got a a logn way to go. White Belt- Shudokan Karate
iolair Posted February 23, 2003 Posted February 23, 2003 I know what you mean. My sensei has been asked to do single-session 'self defense for women' classes a couple times, I know he's uncomfortable with them because he's afraid of causing false self-confidence. They spend an hour practicing defenses against 4 or 5 attacks and feel empowered.Personally, if I had to teach self defence in just one session, I would not do any techniques at all. I would take about awareness, how to avoid dangerous situations, do some role play, and some ideas on how to damage someone using nastier methods (eye gouge, headbutt, biting). No-one is going to learn to do any technique properly in one session, so you have to concentrate on informing them and giving them a sense of reaility regarding attackers. As we all know here, to perform any technique in a real situation, you need to drill, drill, drill it until it can be performed subconsciously. People aren't going to get this from a short self defence course - though we should certainly make them aware of the benefits of taking up a martial art. Currently: Kickboxing and variants.Previously: Karate (Seido, Shotokan, Seidokan), Ju Jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Fencing.
ramymensa Posted February 24, 2003 Author Posted February 24, 2003 Fortunatelly out sensei preaches all the time these things: awareness, peace and so on A good thing is they work a lot on tatami. Learning how to fall properly (some can't even roll ), and for fun some throws (like o soto gari and so on.) Of course they lerarn to punch, kick, block. Some could do well, if trained harder and as you said some come to karate to really learn something. Of course we have some youngsters who just come once a week and declare they are exhausted ... Thanks for the replys .... wanted to know if my opinion was OK World Shotokan Karate
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