ZeRo Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 it does when you are a less experienced grappler. i understand that when you get more advanced you can use there weight to your advantage and all that but this is speaking from my point of view. im interested in how a more experienced grappler would take it on a big heavy street guy?
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 well thats a good question ,seein how i have 6 months of bjj under my belt im gonna try and answer that , i would probably, foot sweep him or use a o-soto-gari than hopefully land in a superiour position but lets say he starts throwing strikes, i clinch, we fall ,i would attemp to put him in my guard or take back mount than submit him from there "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim"
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 2, 2003 Author Posted March 2, 2003 well thats a good question ,seein how i have 6 months of bjj under my belt im gonna try and answer that , i would probably, foot sweep him or use a o-soto-gari than hopefully land in a superiour position but lets say he starts throwing strikes, i clinch, we fall ,i would attemp to put him in my guard or take back mount than submit him from there From mount or guard you could apply an arm bar. Personally I'd rather do arm bar from mount position.
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 2, 2003 Author Posted March 2, 2003 i really wouldnt gte involved with grappling in a street fight. Ya well guess what,if you wouldn't bother with grappling in a real fight you're going to lose then.To fully be able to defend yourself in a real situation you must know how to fight both standing and on the ground otherwise the fight will be over as soon as you hit the ground,instead of you having a chance to still defend yourself. Besides 9 out of 10 times a fight goes and ends on the ground so might as well know some grappling.
Kyle-san Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 Besides 9 out of 10 times a fight goes and ends on the ground so might as well know some grappling. So that 9/10 stat applies to what group of fighters exactly?
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 2, 2003 Author Posted March 2, 2003 Besides 9 out of 10 times a fight goes and ends on the ground so might as well know some grappling. So that 9/10 stat applies to what group of fighters exactly? So are you saying you don't agree?Face it bud everyone knows it's true. The chances of you knocking a guy out with just one or two punches,so he won't be able to fight on the ground is very unlikely regardless of how much training you have in martial arts.Anyone who disagrees with this is either in denial,over-confident or invisible. I'm not saying martial arts never works on the street,I'm just saying there is no guarantee that you won't be taken to ground before end of fight,so you might as well know how to fight on ground and know how to get back up from ground. There's always someone out there that will be a better fighter then you. That's why there is a difference between the best martial artist fighterand the best street fighter. Street fighter doesn't have any rules to follow a martial artist does.So the more you know the better. If you don't know how to grapple chances of winning a fight is really low,because like I said 9 out of 10 x a fight ends to the ground.Stand up and grappling are equally important.Without grappling you can kiss your ass good bye. To answer your question,that 9/10 times applies to anyone that doesn't know how to defend themselves while on their backs and that's most people,unless they've done grappling before.
Kyle-san Posted March 2, 2003 Posted March 2, 2003 I certainly agree with the importance of grappling and that a lot of fights will end up on the ground, but if I remember correctly that 90% figure came from a report on confrontations that police officers got themselves into. Generally speaking they're trained to take an opponent down which would lead to a lot less bruising (and lawsuits) than a stand-up fight. I'm fully aware there are many better fighters than me out there and that there are no rules on the street and I expect that going into every possible fight situation. Assuming the other guy has more experience and is better than you is a wonderful way to think. With that in mind, I'd much rather fight someone standing up and try and avoid going to the ground if they're more experienced than me. I never implied that one or two shots would take a guy down every time, but a few well aimed strikes will take the fight out of most people (especially inexperienced fighters) without you ever going to the ground. That doesn't mean I dispute the fact that grappling is important, but it does mean I don't underestimate what a good striker can do. I'd have thought that someone who's spent so long in striking arts (12 years in karate and 4 in Muay Thai if I remember your posts correctly) would recognize that fact. Edit- And maybe next time you could stick to the relevant question and not spew answers I've heard a dozen other times about how a striker is screwed in a street fight. Thanks.
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 3, 2003 Author Posted March 3, 2003 I certainly agree with the importance of grappling and that a lot of fights will end up on the ground, but if I remember correctly that 90% figure came from a report on confrontations that police officers got themselves into. Generally speaking they're trained to take an opponent down which would lead to a lot less bruising (and lawsuits) than a stand-up fight. I'm fully aware there are many better fighters than me out there and that there are no rules on the street and I expect that going into every possible fight situation. Assuming the other guy has more experience and is better than you is a wonderful way to think. With that in mind, I'd much rather fight someone standing up and try and avoid going to the ground if they're more experienced than me. I never implied that one or two shots would take a guy down every time, but a few well aimed strikes will take the fight out of most people (especially inexperienced fighters) without you ever going to the ground. That doesn't mean I dispute the fact that grappling is important, but it does mean I don't underestimate what a good striker can do. I'd have thought that someone who's spent so long in striking arts (12 years in karate and 4 in Muay Thai if I remember your posts correctly) would recognize that fact. Whoever said I don't recognize the fact that a good striker will take a fight out of most people?I agree with you,all I was saying is it is important to know grappling,because in a real fight where anything goes at times even the best striker can end up on the ground against a good grappler but it can also work the other way around too.There is no guarantee who will go down to the ground first,either way whether it is the striker or the grappler,at least one of them is going to end up on the ground,hopefully it won't be the striker,the grappler fights best on the ground though and a striker is meant for stand up. Well it's my experience of so many years of stand up and now having to know both that shows me,that grappling is important even against the best stand up fighter.That's good that you don't underestimate what a good striker can do,no one should,as a stand up fighter myself I know what we are capable of doing,but I don't underestimate what a good grappler can do either,that's exactly why I say it is important to know both. Infact it would be hard for a grappler to just automatically get a striker to the ground,but should he be able to,you must know how to fight back while on the ground.This is the point I was trying to make Edit- And maybe next time you could stick to the relevant question and not spew answers I've heard a dozen other times about how a striker is screwed in a street fight. Thanks. For example: In UFC if a grappler manages to shoot in on the striker and the striker can't fight once he is taken down you'll see him lose,however if he knows both he has higher chance of winning.This doesn't mean a striker can't necessarily win from a good strike,punch or kick while he is standing up. If you want to compare stand up and grappling as individual art instead of mixed,alot of times at least in UFC anyways,it's the grappler that wins,the gracies proved that over and over again in the UFC fights when UFC first began.They were good for waiting for the perfect moment for a striker to make a move and shoot in and take the striker down. Yes I did karate for 12yrs.As far as muay thai is concerned,I actually only faught for 4 years in muay thai as an individual art ,but what I'm actually trained in is Pankration which involves both stand up (muay thai)and grappling and people who fight pankration are the better fighters.Muay Thai is only good for stand up and I fight like that because I'm best at muaythai,I'm not very good on ground.Against your average person on street I may do good at both stand up and grappling but against a good grappler,I wouldn't do so good on the ground,I'm okay but could do way better. Well it's my experience of so many years of stand up and now having to know both that shows me,that grappling is important even against the best stand up fighter.That's good that you don't underestimate what a good striker can do,no one should,as a stand up fighter myself I know what we are capable of doing,but I don't underestimate what a good grappler can do either,that's exactly why I say it is important to know both. I know I can fight good at stand up both for competition and street,but if I came across a good grappler on street,either I'd beat him by hitting him hard enough for me to be able to take off or even be able to knock him out so he can't take me to the ground or he might take me to the ground no matter how many kicks or punches I throw.It could work either way. Lets for example say we're both fighting stand up and you end up being able to take me to the ground,now you're on top of me throwing punches,if I don't know grappling I won't be able to get out of that position you have me in,and obviously you'd win.Now lets say I do know how to grapple,then even if you take me to ground and try and pin me down chances are I'll be able to free myself and fight you off while I'm still on my back.Without the grappling I'd be history and you would have won. Now you come across someone that knows both grappling and stand up and is good at both,then it won't matter if you take him down because either way,he'll be able to defend himself unless you are lucky enough to just knock him out within the first 30 seconds,while you were both standing. My point is you can be a great stand up fighter or a great grappler which is good if that's what you want your training to be like,however on the street if you only have experience in one of them,as a stand up fighter you better hope to god,that the grappler is unable to shoot in on you and take you down,just as much as the grappler better hope the stand up fighter doesn't manage to kick the crap out of him before that happens,so to be an all rounded fighter you need grappling.Face it any art without grappling is unbalanced just as any art with just grappling and no stand up experience.You can't have one without the other.You can compete in just one but on the street it is a different story.
ZeRo Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 if you hadnt noticed i do train in Jujitsu Muaythai fighter so i do know how to fight on the ground. but as i explained to jiu-jitsu fighter IMO its better to be on your feet and fight then on the floor, rolling with someone twice your size. this is just my opinion.
MuayThai Fighter Posted March 3, 2003 Author Posted March 3, 2003 if you hadnt noticed i do train in Jujitsu Muaythai fighter so i do know how to fight on the ground. but as i explained to jiu-jitsu fighter IMO its better to be on your feet and fight then on the floor, rolling with someone twice your size. this is just my opinion. Well no shit ,of course it's better to stay on your feet,that's stating the obvious.I never once said it wasn't all I said was it's important to know grappling without grappling no art is complete.
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