LeaF Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 kata is extremely important, it may even be argued that it is more important that sparring. If one can understand the bunkai (application) behaind the kata, and master it's essence, you will never have to fight a battle. It is interesting that several people on this forum seem to believe that you can have an art without kata, but not without sparing. An art can be extremely effective without ever sparring. For example, in okinawa they don't spar. Traditionally none of the okinawan arts invovled sparing that was added due to japanese influence. So I guess this means all those karate masters couldn't defend themselves, and according to zero they were not even martial artists! Another example can be found in china. Take a look at the shoalin monks, they don't spar (they have their own forms simular to katas), but yet they are able to perform increditable feats of strenght, power, and agility, and you would be a fool to say they can't take care of themselves. It is very important to understand the bunkai and application of the movements, or else they will just be a mere dance. The kata can teach you balence, distance, timing, technique (how to effectively punch, kick, and commit numerous strikes), It's breating can keep your mind in focus so that when a situation of severity occurs your mind will be ready, it increases your reation speed and your ability to react to different situations, we must be able to adapt these kata to different situations, it concentrates and focuses your ki giving you highened awareness and prevalence and again it is not merely a dance. It is very important to visualize your oppentants before you and see yourself commiting the attacks upon them. So as you originally said, I do agree that if left on an island and you just praticed katas, you could easily be one of the best fighters there is if you understand what you are doing. So as you can see the lessons found in kata are invaluable, and some cannot even be taught in sparring, if that could ever be possible! if you just do kata your just an artist not a martial artist. No Zero, if you just sparr you are not a martial artist, just a fighter. Katas are not just dances, there is some martial value to them believe it or not. Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan KobudoGiven enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.I AM CANADIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRo Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 ok maybe i should rephrase that, without knowledge of the applications of the movements of kata you are just an artist. but to fully know when to use the movements IMO you need to spar and try them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaF Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 lol very well perhaps I got a little over emotional on this topic Goju Ryu Karate-do and Okinawan Kobudo, 17 Years Old 1st kyu Brown Belt in in Goju Ryu Karate-do, & Shodan in Okinawan KobudoGiven enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.I AM CANADIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeRo Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 s'ok i can understand what you were saying and to some extent i agree:) but i can see how you got the wrong end of what i was trying to say. hope we got that cleared up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 (edited) Leaf, If an MA has no kata it does not make it any less a Martial Art. This sort of art snobbery (which I am also guitly of) gets us nowhere. If someone blindly follows kata, not understanding the intensions of the movements, then it is a dance. Dance does all the things you said above about power and balance etc. The difference between the Congo and Heian Sandan is that fact that Heian Sandan teachs you to break arms the Congo does'nt. *Disclaimer, sorry for poor grammer, very tired, plus Judo and CHOKES, I can barely turn my head enough to read across the screen.* Edited February 17, 2003 by Kensai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 exactly what kirves said, if you do exercies and drills using the katas and learn how they work and spar and not just do the kata all the time by yourself, than there are benefits "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gheinisch Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Katas are the essence of Karate, without them Karate would be the mere learning of various fighting and self-defense techniques, expressing nothing and allowing for no aesthetic development. Katas are the distilled concentrated wisdom, understanding, and experience of hundreds of great karate peak awareness. When one begins to understand them one glimpses a new world of untold internal riches. The primary meaning of the kata is for the performer himself. If he is unable to immerse himself in the kata and so release his emotions, or life force, a master will say of the performer that he is still "in the dance", that is, unable to emote or express his feelings at will. This poignant karate saying has an even more profound when the sensei refers to a student "coming out of the dance". This is the highest compliment one can recieve. The eventual perfection of the katas lead not only to mastery of the basic forms and techniques, but also to physical and spiritual sensitivity and to complete control of all parts of the body. A good Karateka first develops his katas to perfection and later perfects his Jul-Kumite (sparring) ability. The above is a small portion from my Hon-Shin-Do handbook. I believe katas train your body to act without thinking which is important in a real conflict senario. It only takes a split second of hesitation and you'll be picking yourself up off the ground (if your lucky). One must act without thinking. That's my opinion. Greg "If your hand goes forth withhold your temper""If your temper goes forth withold your hand"-Gichin Funakoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venezolano Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I have some point of views about Kata's I like Kata's, they look good, but in what i'm not agree with the MA that practice them, is that many loss many time practicing them and don't spar, or get belts only by know all katas :S Valencia - Venezuela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotokan_Fighter Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 to me kata is not a waste of time im in a style that is all about kata i really like it and i just got my purple belt so i am learning a whole new kata now it is heian gondan tahnks for the replys "When I fight, I fight with my heart,and soul. My heart, and soul is Shotokan Karate."Shotokan_fighters creed"karate has to come natural in a fight, if you have to think about using karate in a fight, you will loose the fight"3rd kyu brown belt - shotokan karate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I would prefer to shadow box any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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