Doormen/real street defence/Combat

[jeffin]

From: ONEBIGMUTHA 3:50 pm

 

To: ALL (1 of 1)

 

 

 

1914.1

 

 

 

I don't regularly buy them but I was bored so I picked up a copy of COMBAT. I thought I'd start a discussion about one of the articles in which Tony Agostini expresses his distaste for people of geoff thompsons ilk. (I've left chunks out)

 

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Combat; Following on from last month you mentioned the pre emptive strike. A whole industry has built up around the concept of 'real' street defence but you feel that much of it is out of date. Why?

 

TA; ....Based upon my experiences in various clubs and places.....I've read a lot of the old stories and I'm a pro in the industry. I don't write books and don't brag about stories as amusing as they might be....I would rather educate people in the industry so they don't get hurt. I can't relate to those stories and the nearest I can relate is in the later years of school up until I was eighteen.

 

Combat; Has society really changed so much and become so vicious?

 

TA; Without a doubt. A lot of the doormen books I read involve stuff like, "Lets go outside and have a punch up" or "he said this so I knocked him out" We did this when I was at school, the whole point of getting into weapons training was the sheer amount of knives being produced. The situation I've seen escalate over the last eight to ten years has been with regard to drugs and I don't know if the people who write these articles really understand the problems we have in certain areas of london. #not just london-pete# Its kids, teenagers and they are taking and selling drugs and coming out with weapons. There is no way they can run their outfits without some kind of weapons.

 

In the clubs its a nightmare to take out someone dealing drugs. You simply don't rush in there is a lengthy process to establish everyone in the team. Theres a runner/dealer/banker and minders and they don't care if they get caught because its there job. We are walking on thin ice because these people have got the ammunition to carry out there threats, they could take us out from a hundred yards away, it is this sort of thing the story telling doormen don't understand. I would love it to be like 'outside for a quick fight'

 

Its not like that anymore, shooters crossbows I was even offered a schmoolie. An anti aircraft weapon that could take out the door and half the club for twenty quid each. the guy demostrated it for me on the hackney marshes.

 

In terms of reaction to a crime or percieved slight or injury or lack of respect the levels of violence described are completely out of context. It has been noted in streetcrime that kids are being held at gunpoint for there mobile phones. People have come from eastern europe that have a different mentality, in terms of 'acceptable violence' they come over on false passports how do I know. A lot of them come on door courses and I ask them for their name and adress and theyve got the cheek to take out their passport to check how to spell their name. Running with that is the gang mentality that these people are quite happy to shoot stab or wound you because a criminal conviction is like a medal of honour.

 

combat; And everyone hates doormen.

 

AG; Thats the worst thing.....trying to promote it as a professional industry.....can pick up a lot of good attributes. It has such a tarnished reputation, prior to 1991 when licensing came in doormen were known as bouncers - and thats when all the stories relate to. When some one says no I am not going to leave and gets knocked out. That wouldn't work now, do you realise how much compensation goes out in a civil litigation. I need consent to search someone without consent, if i touch someone without consent its assault. I teach criminal law to door supervisors and we stay within the laws of reasonable force. Its not about knocking someone out if the look at you wrong or waiting for them to hit first its about maintaing balance.

 

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Brings up a few good points though it is a little unclear. I have long been skeptical of finding anything useful in the real self defence books after reading geoff thompsons "pressure testing the martial arts". What is everyones opinions?

 

(Personally I do not like geoff thompson and his ilk however I do respect that some are talented writers)

 

pete,