Japanese and Okinawan Goju Ryu.

[Kensai]

Is there a difference other than what lies in the kata?

 

Unique moves in each style?

 

Weapons?

 

Its just that I have been reading about Yamaguchi and Miyagi resently and was justing wondering what the difference was.

 

Osu!

 

[LeaF]

Well they are essentially the same things, as the two versions are overun with simularities. When Goju came to japan yamaguchi added one extra characteristic to it. He added free sparing. Before then only step sparring (Ippon kumite) was praticed. yamaguchi did this as an attempt to make Goju more appealing to the japanese community. Now in present day there is almost no differecnce. We have recently had a few people join our dojo from okinawan Goju dojos, and they seem to say that the classes were almost always the same, with a little varation in the katas. They are the same katas but performed slightly differently. Kinda like dialects of the english language. As for weapons, neither style incorparates weapons, that would be kobudo

[Kensai]

Cheers leaf.

 

Did Yamaguchi and Miyagi ever meet? Did they have the same teacher?

[LeaF]

miyagi taught yamaguchi so yes they met quite often, yamuguchi ran the japanese goju but miyagi founded the art.

[Kensai]

AH right.

 

Cheers for clearing that up.

[LeaF]

No problem, my pleasure I do enjoy talking about my art

[Neil]

Yes there are differences.

 

First of all Okinawan Karate is a Jutsu Art. Any Jutsu art means traditional warefare. It is extremly dangerous to practice and is why it is never practiced as a sport. The Do of Japanese Karate is less than 100 years old and has been made 'safe'. When looking at Do arts they have all been made to be practiced safely:

 

Karate-Jutsu = Karate-Do

 

Ju-Jutsu = Ju-do

 

Kobo-Jutsu = Kobo-Do

 

Aiki-Jutsu = Aiki-Do

 

There are many more of these but I'l stick to the ones I know.

 

Also when loooking at a practitioner of Karate-Jutsu he will most likely have huge fourarms, from relentless grip training such as ,Chi-Shi, Nigiri-Game, finger tip pushups and so on. The whole body also will be very strong and very well conditioned. A teacher when showing application will not treat the students like cotton wool, he will really give you a good pounding and the applications will be of function rather than 'flowery'. If you go into any Jutsu class you will do Kata, applications to kata, Kumite, and swapping drills, strengh and conditioning work either with equiment or getting conditioned with swapping drills, heavy pad work (not light pad work), and constant explanation of everything and why you do it so you are not a mere recording robot who simply is told to do something and does not knowing if it it may one day save his life. The one thing we don't do is spend half the lesson walking up and down the dojo screaming Kiai and punching Thin Air. This teaches you nothing. Everything comes from your kata.

 

Also going back to my earlier point, when in the Dojo there is no such thing as 'Free Sparring' or 'Full Contact'. This really is the pathetic down fall of modern karate-Do. When you say full contact or free sparring you are basically saying anything goes. But if I was to walk into a Dojo and do free sparring or full contact fighting do you think the instructor would allow me to poke my fingers into the opponents eyes, kick him in the bulls, rip his ears off, headbut of bite his nose off, tear some muscle off the lats or obliques, break his leg, or neck? Somehow I don't think so, yet that is exactly what you want to do in a street fight. There is no such thing as a pretty fight! In a fight there is no time to block, put on a hold, do a nice throw, or send a ching blast into him. In a fight you would poke him in the eyes (takes out his vision), strike the throat with a heavy forum or punch (take out the breath), and strike downward with either the shin or kness to the outside kness with takes him to the ground. Then the finest technique of all .... run!

 

The whole point of a Jutsu art in Okinawa was to have protected your self and your family and get home safley, that was it. No ego, no nothing.

 

I love it when my teacher talks about some of the ways he has gotten across to people of Do or for that matter boxing when they want to do full contact fighting with him. One occaison was when my teacher was in Malaysia with Nigel Sutton and he found a Kyukushin Dojo there. He went in and joined the lesson which is usuially unlikely. Then came full contact time. He was faced with a guy weel over six feet tall and my teacher is about 5'7. As soon as the bout began my teacher stuck his fingers into the other guys eye. The guy went down and my teacher was disqualified. And was asked why he did that. He repleid that the oppenant was on the ground and he wasn't, thats all that pattered.

 

I better stop here other wise I'l go on all day but please reply back if you have any questions.

[Infin8_Mind]

The problem is I haven't been able to locate any Jutsu arts around the area. So I'll have to read into it if I want to learn more about the art (while I'm at it, do you recommend any websites or books?). It's good that you've been able to find the art in your area... but like you implied it is traditional warefare, so it's not easy to come across as you probably know.

 

I'm obviously in Karate-do, though our sensei was born in Japan and raised most of his life in Russia, and he gives us a "good beating" too, lol. I'm guessing the training there is a bit more intense. I wouldn't know, have any ideas? I haven't asked him about his background much.

[karate_woman]

The whole point of a Jutsu art in Okinawa was to have protected your self and your family and get home safley, that was it. No ego, no nothing.

 

I love it when my teacher talks about some of the ways he has gotten across to people of Do or for that matter boxing when they want to do full contact fighting with him. One occaison was when my teacher was in Malaysia with Nigel Sutton and he found a Kyukushin Dojo there. He went in and joined the lesson which is usuially unlikely. Then came full contact time. He was faced with a guy weel over six feet tall and my teacher is about 5'7. As soon as the bout began my teacher stuck his fingers into the other guys eye. The guy went down and my teacher was disqualified. And was asked why he did that. He repleid that the oppenant was on the ground and he wasn't, thats all that pattered.

 

I think there was a lesson there, but you chose to draw the opposite lesson I would; if he had no respect for the rules, would it not have been better to decline? If he wanted eye gouges, etc to be legal, would it not have been more ethical for him to have informed his opponent of his "anything goes" intention, so they could act similarly? This wasn't a street fight, just a "fun" bout from the sounds of things - so what does it prove? What you've described is not someone to be admired and revered, I'm afraid

[Spirit]

Hi all

 

Good topic/thread going on, lets see about cleaning some things up a bit.

 

Well their are some minor and major differences about the two arts, first you can distinct the two by thier stances, japanese goju has long stances while Okinawan has shorter, the difference appears mostly in the Zenkutsu Dachi stance.

 

The other factors, are that Yamaguchi Sensei (ase stated before) incorprated free sparring, but he also incorparated yoga and the breathing aspect of ones ki energy. Thier are other factors like the fact that since most Okinawans are by genetics much smaller people than japanese they worked more the upper body, while the japanese worked the lower body much more.

 

The big differences comes in the Kata's and the way they are performed, thier are differences in the body motions and the way a kata is performed. BUt thier are some Katas where it is only the hand movment s that make the difference in the kata.

 

Depending on the type of person you are, either one will appeal to you in its different ways.. Okinawan Goju is much more rigid than Japanese Goju, so each like i siad will appeal differently to different people and their tastes.

 

THe Spirit lives on

 

Spirit