Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling

[ak74auto]

ak74auto I am a member of the catchwrestle.com site. Every Catch wrestler knows their is a difference between the two Gotches, and that they are not related. Frank Gotch was from Iowa and actually was the state wrestling champion. You will not find Carl Gotches name in the historical section on the catchwrestle site. Frank Gotch was a well respected Catch Wrestler. The way you speak about Lou Thesz obviously shows me that you know nothing about Catch; it was actually clearly evident when you made your initial statement about Matt Furey(who is more about marketing than anything else). Not only do I study it from a historical perspective, I also practice it.

 

I really wish you wouldn't make uninformed statements like that. At best it would probably start a flame, and at worst, you could be misleading people who have a genuine interest in the style.

 

Perhaps you should take a look around on www.catchwrestle.com...then tell me what you find.

 

1. I'm not going to argue with about this . Carl Gotch is considered the God of wrestling in Japan , thesz is not ! They were BOTH pro wrestlers and what Pro wrestling calls hookers / shooters .

 

2. I said IF Matt furey has done what HE claims to have done training wise , then his tapes would be worth having . I did NOT endorse him , I did recommend MR. Gotch .

 

3. You have been rather abusive from the start , if you disagree with me that is fine . WE ALL have a RIGHT to our opinions , we do not have the right to bash / flame others because we disagree .

 

4 . Do not accuse me of misinforming anyone when you haven't produced any proof to contradict what I have posted thus far.

 

Have a nice day

[CatchGuy]

I did produce proof...it is on the site that I referred you to. You are right however, you are entitled to your own opinion. The Gotch that you speak of [Carl] was popular in Japan mainly because of worked fights, not because of any superior ability(hopefully I don't have to explain what a worked fight is). I never said that Carl Gotch could not wrestle, he is just not nearly as good as you have been claiming. He certainly is not in the league of Thesz.

 

Abusive? No, when people start assuming that Matt Furey marketing could be of value because he may have trained with a wrestler that did worked matches in Japan, that is an insult to the style. I am just trying to clear things up.

[ak74auto]

I did produce proof...it is on the site that I referred you to. You are right however, you are entitled to your own opinion. The Gotch that you speak of [Carl] was popular in Japan mainly because of worked fights, not because of any superior ability(hopefully I don't have to explain what a worked fight is). I never said that Carl Gotch could not wrestle, he is just not nearly as good as you have been claiming. He certainly is not in the league of Thesz.

 

Abusive? No, when people start assuming that Matt Furey marketing could be of value because he may have trained with a wrestler that did worked matches in Japan, that is an insult to the style. I am just trying to clear things up.

 

1. Yes , I know what worked match is . That's why I mentioned that BOTH Gotch and thesz were pro wrestlers .

 

2 . I said that if Mat has done what HE claims to have done , then his tapes SHOULD be of some value . I did not and do not personally endorse him because I do not know very much about him .

 

3 . I respect Thesz's grappling capabilities , he was a great hooker ( You should know what is) , HOWEVER , he was not the greatest . I personally would not have wanted to square off with either of the two mentioned combatants , they were both very dangerous men in their hayday.

[CatchGuy]

I'll agree with that post. Hey ak74auto you are in atlanta too?

[CatchGuy]

Well, I agree in so much as that you admit that Thesz was very skilled. I suppose it all depends on who you ask and what research you are doing. On the catch boards, there is no doubt that Thesz had great ability. Concerning Carl[Karl] Gotch...it seems that what is said is that he did in fact know a good number of hooks and such. Where the question really arises is his ability to apply them in a non-worked setting against someone of high skill level.

 

Other guys like Tom Jenkins, Joe Stecher, Joseph "Toots" Mondt, Farmer Burns...etc were also Legitimate grapplers (non-bjj)

 

Taken from a bjj site http://bjj.org/editorials/19980215-prowrest/

 

In response to your quote "I respect Thesz's grappling capabilities , he was a great hooker ( You should know what is) , HOWEVER , he was not the greatest . "

 

"Lou Thesz is considered by many the greatest "hooker" of his century. Thesz was trained by wrestling legends such as George Tragos, Ed "Strangler" Lewis ("Judo" Gene LeBell's teacher as well), and Ad Santel and won the NWA, the so-called "Undisputed World Heavyweight Championship" in 1948."

 

 

Karl Gotch was actually considered second greatest because of his popularity in Japan. Again, I cannot really trace back the lineage of Karl Gotch...But I do know that Thezs was trained by some of the best...Including Ad santel who actually beat the ranking judo players of his time.

[jmy77]

I was looking around on the web and came across this site on Frank Gotch. Pretty interesting read. http://www.frankgotch.com/biography.html

 

Catch Guy, you seem to know a lot about catch. How long have you been training in Catch wrestling? Have you competed against people of other styles (i.e. jj, bjj, judo) what are advantages and disadvantages compared to those styles? How do you feel Catch applies to potential real life situations (would you be able to end a confrontation with your skills in catch wrestling?)

 

As you can tell I am quite interested in it. There are many JJ schools and BJJ schools around me on Long Island (NY) but all (BJJ) are upwards of $140/month and everyone seems to be taking some sort of JJ.

 

Thanks.

[CatchGuy]

*note* Catch is not "better" than BJJ it is just different.

 

Catch is similar to the other grappling styles...in that the moves are as a whole similar however, there are some sublte differences which are very important. Compared to bjj catch would probably be considered more offensive. Bjj is effective as well, but I have seen that they generally prefer the gaurd.

 

Catch "generally" uses more neck cranks, shoulder locks, hip locks, head chancery,nelsons, toe holds, shin locks, short arms scissors, heel hooks etc.

 

Catch wrestlers do not consider the gaurd a dominant position. They also concentrate on subs from any position at any time. (hence the name catch as catch can) They really prefer control instead position, and favor the mount more so than the guard. One difference I have noticed is that in bjj they tend to try and pass the guard, whereas in catch, they try and sub you while they are in your gaurd.

 

Catch wrestlers like to stick to an opponent like a steamroller. In essence...even when they have you in a side mount, they leave you with very little room to breathe. They are constantly driving with their hips to make the person underneath uncomfortable.

 

Catch wrestlers do not wait for an opponent to do something silly and then catch them in a top wrist lock or arm bar...they actually try and force the opponent into making a mistake.

 

Other differences...(correct me if I am wrong) Sometimes it is difficult to throw a person without a gi, so some judo throws may have to be modified to work in the street. BJJ from what I have heard/read do not concentrate on takedowns as much as a wrestler/shooter.

 

Also...many people know what to expect from a bjj grappler...not many know what a catch person might try and do to them.

 

Lastly, No grappling art is effective by itself in streetfighting...I don't care what anyone says. You must know some form of stand up fighting. I personally box...but other styles such as MT..etc would be effective.

 

Now, if you are asking if Catch is effective while on the ground...and there aren't any of the opponents "friends" around...then yes, it is extremly effective. Matter of fact in Catch...there really is no such thing as "dirty fighting"...it is the original No holds barred. No one is going to yell foul for grinding your knuckles into someone's rib cage. When they have you pinned down or locked...there is no telling what they may do to you.