With all that’s happened to Sensei8, it was expected that his experiences soured him on governing bodies/politics.

Things may be different depending on the type of connection one has with the governing body, one’s “position” and how long involved.

The head of my school and lineage has taught me personally and semi-privately for years. His influence goes beyond martial arts and I consider him more than just an instructor.

It is often said that the teacher and method are more important than the style/ryuha. This is very true in this case and his company is appreciated as much as what/how he teaches.

Having so much more to learn and being a lower black belt, maintaining ties is essential to personal progress in karate.

This is what I find challenging and maybe it is easier to do when one runs a branch school. The subject is often discussed with my instructor; but at this time though the interest and motivation are there, I lack the time and resources to invest in starting a club/opening a dojo…

9 hours ago, Spartacus Maximus said:

With all that’s happened to Sensei8, it was expected that his experiences soured him on governing bodies/politics.

Things may be different depending on the type of connection one has with the governing body, one’s “position” and how long involved.

The head of my school and lineage has taught me personally and semi-privately for years. His influence goes beyond martial arts and I consider him more than just an instructor.

It is often said that the teacher and method are more important than the style/ryuha. This is very true in this case and his company is appreciated as much as what/how he teaches.

Having so much more to learn and being a lower black belt, maintaining ties is essential to personal progress in karate.

This is what I find challenging and maybe it is easier to do when one runs a branch school. The subject is often discussed with my instructor; but at this time though the interest and motivation are there, I lack the time and resources to invest in starting a club/opening a dojo…

Hironiri Otsuka is most famous for being the founder of Wado-ryu. What many people outside of Wado-ryu don't know is his background story for why he started a whole new style.

His historical significance goes beyond that. The belt system was adopted by Funakoshi and applied to karate. Funakoshi was a godan, but godan was awarded to him by the Jigoro Kano via the Kodokan.

Outside of that, Otsuka was the very first ever karateka to rise through the kyu ranks and be awarded shodan. He trained directly under Funakoshi.

Then something happened. The famous dojo storming of Motobu Choki where he humiliated Funakoshi in front of his students. Otsuka was one of those students who witnessed this. As a result of this, he cut ties with Funakoshi and trained under Motobu. He then went on to found Wado-ryu.

So is it an absolute must that you maintain ties to develop your karate? No. Your karate eventually becomes just that - your karate. However, if you decide that your karate consists of maintaining ties, that's up to you to decide.

On 7/23/2026 at 11:11 AM, Wado Heretic said:

I have subsequently explored inviting some of the sensei I connected with to the UK, but after the third try I gave up. Each wanted different guarantees I could not make, or an affiliation I do not want. If I were part of their organisations, or running a bigger venture myself, it would plausibly be easier but I am reticent to join an overseas organisation with which I will have limited access at the prices required, and with the obligations expected. And for me, I wanted to bring them to help promote actual Okinawan karate in the UK, not for my own benefit so each attempt turned into a non-starter. I decided to stop asking as I felt it was impacting the friendships I had built.

That's too bad those attempts fizzled out like that. It seems that Martial Arts for Martial Arts sake doesn't happen as much as it should.

Thank you all for the many valid points to consider. Although maintaining ties and affiliation should not be a defining feature of what a martial artist does; there is a time where it is essential.

Social or political relationships aside, being affiliated provides access to a network of support, reference and guidance for personal progress within the chosen style.

A 2dan still has very much to learn and gain from associating with seniors and remaining under the guidance of a skilled and experienced instructor.

Later on after reaching a higher level of skills, knowledge and experience it may become less necessary or frequent.

It is, at least in the traditional way, akin to having good parents: for many years we depend on them to teach us skills, pass on knowledge from their experiences. Eventually we make our own way in the world but still seek their counsel.

However no matter how far away from them we may go or how old we get we still call them our parents.

12 hours ago, Spartacus Maximus said:

Thank you all for the many valid points to consider. Although maintaining ties and affiliation should not be a defining feature of what a martial artist does; there is a time where it is essential.

Social or political relationships aside, being affiliated provides access to a network of support, reference and guidance for personal progress within the chosen style.

A 2dan still has very much to learn and gain from associating with seniors and remaining under the guidance of a skilled and experienced instructor.

Later on after reaching a higher level of skills, knowledge and experience it may become less necessary or frequent.

It is, at least in the traditional way, akin to having good parents: for many years we depend on them to teach us skills, pass on knowledge from their experiences. Eventually we make our own way in the world but still seek their counsel.

However no matter how far away from them we may go or how old we get we still call them our parents.

I agree!!

As someone who was part of the SKKA hierarchy, and who’s seen many things that others were not privy enough to see, the Governing Body is a valuable resource for the Student Body, but only if the Student Body is first and foremost, especially by its highest branch of the hierarchy.

The Student Body of any Governing Body should always be allowed to question about everything without fear of repercussions from anyone. If not, said Governing Body isn’t worth anything, especially when their integrity can be questioned, compromised, and undermined.

On 7/30/2026 at 3:37 PM, sensei8 said:

As someone who was part of the SKKA hierarchy, and who’s seen many things that others were not privy enough to see, the Governing Body is a valuable resource for the Student Body, but only if the Student Body is first and foremost, especially by its highest branch of the hierarchy.

The Student Body of any Governing Body should always be allowed to question about everything without fear of repercussions from anyone. If not, said Governing Body isn’t worth anything, especially when their integrity can be questioned, compromised, and undermined.

I think this is true. When a GB decides to make changes, how often to they speak to the students about how such changes may impact them? I think often, especially GBs populated with older Far Eastern men at their heads, they expect a student body to just acquiesce to the changes they make, because "loyalty." Then you end up with upset students, some of which might be high enough rank or have enough backing by their own students to break away, thus weakening the organization overall. The GB should address the student body and determine how changes might affect the rank and file of the organization before making wholesale changes. Unless they just truly don't care if they lose those students.

6 hours ago, bushido_man96 said:

I think this is true. When a GB decides to make changes, how often to they speak to the students about how such changes may impact them? I think often, especially GBs populated with older Far Eastern men at their heads, they expect a student body to just acquiesce to the changes they make, because "loyalty." Then you end up with upset students, some of which might be high enough rank or have enough backing by their own students to break away, thus weakening the organization overall. The GB should address the student body and determine how changes might affect the rank and file of the organization before making wholesale changes. Unless they just truly don't care if they lose those students.

If those expectations are indeed there, they're definitely not being met. Not even among the old Asian men themselves, probably the most notable example in the history of karate being what happened to JKA in the years following the passing of Masatoshi Nakayama. They're fully aware of what can happen to their organizations if they choose to be too rigid.

On 7/29/2026 at 8:47 AM, bushido_man96 said:

That's too bad those attempts fizzled out like that. It seems that Martial Arts for Martial Arts sake doesn't happen as much as it should.

Thank you, and it is what it is. I think to be fair to those I asked I should state what I had planned. I wished for them to visit for a fortnight, or between 14 and 18 days depending on what suited them best. My ambition was to run two weekend courses, likely one in Wolverhampton and the other in Sheffield based on my contacts. These weekend courses would be open to anyone to maximise probable participation. Aside from that I did want them to teach some classes in the week as well. At least one at my own dojo for myself and my students. At least one at the association Hombu, and then one or two at some other association dojo, for association members only. It would have been quite a bit of teaching over the two weeks. Likely somewhere in the realm of 30 hours. I did offer to cover travel and accommodation, and to chauffeur them around the UK and make time in the schedule for tourism. At the time I was looking at an outlay of £3000-5000, which I had a budget for. And I was optimistic I would make the money back and a potential profit based on expected interest levels. This was before Covid, so I imagine now it would be significantly more, and I fear I would not get the interest to justify the financial risk. Another factor as to why I have never tried again really. Thankfully, there does seem to be others bringing Okinawan Masters to the UK.

I was very upfront with what I expected and with what I could offer. If they wanted remuneration I was hoping they would tell me. I did not want to lead with it as I felt that would be impolite. Otherwise, the other talking points were very much around association and membership, which I mentioned in my earlier post. And for me that was a non-starter as I did not want a new affiliation or membership, at least until they had visited at least once and thus shown willing. I am not sure if things were lost in translation or there were cultural differences I did not navigate as well as I thought I had, but I just brought the conversations to a close when I felt we were starting to go in circle. But I do want to make clear that I was asking them to do a lot of work in the time requested, and potentially without them seeing great reward for it, so I understood why it stalled.  

On 7/27/2026 at 2:09 PM, Furinkazan said:

Hironiri Otsuka is most famous for being the founder of Wado-ryu. What many people outside of Wado-ryu don't know is his background story for why he started a whole new style.

His historical significance goes beyond that. The belt system was adopted by Funakoshi and applied to karate. Funakoshi was a godan, but godan was awarded to him by the Jigoro Kano via the Kodokan.

Outside of that, Otsuka was the very first ever karateka to rise through the kyu ranks and be awarded shodan. He trained directly under Funakoshi.

Then something happened. The famous dojo storming of Motobu Choki where he humiliated Funakoshi in front of his students. Otsuka was one of those students who witnessed this. As a result of this, he cut ties with Funakoshi and trained under Motobu. He then went on to found Wado-ryu.

So is it an absolute must that you maintain ties to develop your karate? No. Your karate eventually becomes just that - your karate. However, if you decide that your karate consists of maintaining ties, that's up to you to decide.

Not to be a pedant but Ohtsuka Meijin was only one of seven to be issued the first black belts by Funakoshi. Aside from Ohtsuka Hironori,Shodan grades were awarded to Gima Shinken, Kasuya, Akiba, Shimizu, and Hirose. Tokuda Ante was awarded a Nidan grade, making him the most senior of these first black belts. He had significant training in Karate before relocating to the Tokyo from Okinawa so may have been a matter of seniority rather than personal skill. Ohtsuka was already accomplished in Shindo Yoshin-Ryu at this point after all.

There is also no evidence that Motobu's anecdote is true. The original source is from the work by Nakata Mizuhiko recording stories and anecdotes told to him by Motobu. Therefore, it is a second hand account. Furthermore, Konishi Yasuhiro, who was a student of Funakoshi at the same time as Ohtsuka, states that it was a story he was told and could not confirm nor deny the truth of it. We can also look at time lines to establish context. By 1928, Ohtsuka was one of Funakoshi's primary assistant instructors, and also training with Motobu Choki and Mabuni Kenwa. It was not until the early 1930s when they parted ways, with Ohtsuka registering his Wado-Ryu with the Butokai in 1934 marking his formal break from Funakoshi although their appears to have been an informal break earlier. That said, Ohtsuka is present in the original 1935 print of the Karate Do Kyohan, particularly in the Bukiwaza section. Ohtsuka was formally expelled from Funakoshi's association in 1935 though there are conflicting stories as to why. The official declaration was because he was teaching a style distinct from the Shotokan's. Either way, the idea he broke with Funakoshi to train with Motobu on the basis of this purported witnessed event does not line up with everything else.

Anyway, to the broader topic of governing bodies. I do think it is a matter of whether one is an instructor or a student. It frames and shapes one's concerns. As an instructor, my concerns are very much value for money for my students, and access to training to make myself a better karateka. Plus, reassurance that the services that I am a member of the governing body for will be met. In contrast, thinking back to my time as a student predominantly, it was very much about accessing opportunities. Access to courses, the chance to compete if I wanted, and quality of instruction across dojo. However, over all, I think what is most important is access to a sensei. Someone to guide, advise, and teach you on to become better. Other than that, coaches. Even if they are otherwise peers who are better at you then some things that you can learn from. A governing body is ultimately a tool and like any tool it comes down to the craftsperson.

After ANY said tie(s) are finally gone and done, then what is left, no matter how it might appear, is all that remains, and oftentimes, quite degraded.

On 8/3/2026 at 11:11 PM, bushido_man96 said:

I think this is true. When a GB decides to make changes, how often to they speak to the students about how such changes may impact them? I think often, especially GBs populated with older Far Eastern men at their heads, they expect a student body to just acquiesce to the changes they make, because "loyalty." Then you end up with upset students, some of which might be high enough rank or have enough backing by their own students to break away, thus weakening the organization overall. The GB should address the student body and determine how changes might affect the rank and file of the organization before making wholesale changes. Unless they just truly don't care if they lose those students.

Under the hierarchy of Soke, Dai-Soke, and then me, the student body was NEVER kept in the dark about anything because of our shared transparency across the board.

Integrity is not just some word that sounds good. It far exceeds the level of transparency that we expect from day one, without any ambiguity, from everyone, and not just some.

Students are not some autonomous entities that blindly follow the GB protocol without question; the students never have, but some do because they don’t know better, and they never should have. We made sure of that!!

Under the hierarchy of San-Dai-Soke, the wheels came off quickly because the importance was hierarchy first, SKKA second, and the student body dead last; students had to bow to the hierarchy without any exceptions.

Civil War erupted next and the firestorm quickly swept through the SKKA landscape unmercifully. Next, the SKKA was destroyed…closed permanently as everyone scattered away from each other like burning embers being doused before they’d never ever been seen again.

Here’s why, and because of that, I will never trust any Governing Body; I’ll let the floor speak for myself.

Edited Thursday at 08:42 PM3 days by sensei8