Shotokan Styles - Lower or Higher Stances

[speedbird]

Hi to all,

 

I am really lost with this issue, Honestly I do not even know what "style" am I in.. I lived in a small town in northern mexico and studied shotokan karate for years, proud to say I am a 6 Kyu, my sensei always stressed the fact that out stances had to be really low so our center of gravity is also low and our feet would always act as well placed pillars.. my three belts were given by Nakayama (first one, long time ago) and Ishikawa (3 yrs) (don't know if that rings the bell to some), usually these masters came from Phoenix, AZ, USA which is very close from my town.

 

Now, I live in Southern California, and I got really confused when I tried to join 2 schools (Garden grove and Whittier) close from my comunity, first, my new sensei was telling me that my stances were too low and that was "old style", and that I had to stay up, amlost like TKD in my opinion, next, the classes were physically intensive and usually a lot of dummy-hitting/kicking was involved, then lots of sparring, at the end, talks about techniques (10 min) and that was it..

 

Now, is this too "americanized"? considering the fact that most young people (I am in my mid-30s, and many of the students were teenagers) just want to learn martial arts to "k*ck a*s" only.. these dojos were just giving them what they wanted? or am I mistaken?

 

By the way, do lower-stance karate exists still? (I certainly see very low-stances in events such as the shoto-cup,, etc) or is it just in my old-fashioned hometown where kata attention is a must and sparring "comes naturally" after learning good techniques?

 

Thanks for your time reading this post,

 

Speedbird

[Tobias_Reece]

Speedbird

 

Welcome to the board (I don't I've ever been the first person to say that).

 

Shotokan is know for its deep stances, but if you look in the dojo kun...."Low stances for beginners, high stances for advanced"

 

Many people have interpreted this in a different way - some think that it means "Low stances are for yellow belts and below" whilst others believe it as "Low stances are for everyone except 5th dans upwards"

 

When I trained Shotokan, I always did low stances. The advanced part would be the actual street combat, where I would stand 'normally'.

 

But deep stances being 'old style' is rubbish, and rude, and it spits on everything we preach. You're practising a historical martial art, not Joe Bloggs' "Knock 'em and Sock 'em Shack" (hey I like that name, might have to rename my school )

 

Anyway, we'll suppose you if u need any help

 

Regards

 

-Tobias

[Kirves]

A friend of mine who is a Shotokan brown belt, said they use wide deep stances up to black belt, then at black belt rank higher stances are allowed in kumite but not in kata.

 

But Shotokan is no longer governed by one single organization, but several different factions and they all do their own thing.

[Karateka_latino]

When I was in Shotokan Karate i was told that Low stances were for training kihon and kata, to make leg stronger.. but for Kumite i needed to use a higher stance so i could move better.

 

That make sense to me..

[tenkamusou]

Hey there!

 

I was studying about that a few days ago... and I came to this conclusion:

 

Low stances are very important!

 

it makes your legs stronger, give you more balanced, and if you rotate your hips right the punch will be stronger, cause I'll be in a solid stance.

 

In kumite is very usefull... this sunday 26th, I've been to a championship.. and I saw all these guys jumping around with no stance like it was boxing or something... for a skilled fighter that uses stances instead of jumpin around, they'll be an easy target... they're easier to use shibarai, to hit some perfect mae gueri ( like i did ehehehhehehe )

 

And I even got to see some awesome veteran senseis fighting... they could actually defend and counter atack, like if it was a tai sabaki, or a kihon with two people! that was amazing to me! it's hard to dominate the stances really well, but when you do you'll be able to do anything you want...

 

It's sad to me that people try to mix the styles... fighting kumite like if it was a tae kwon do or a Boxing fight... if ya ask your old instructors he'll confirm that karate is not ment to fight like people are fighting now...

 

well.. that's just my opinion

 

but, you have to practice Karate the way you feel more confortable... then if ya want to improve it, u are free to do it ya know?

 

Hope I'd help in any way...

[Killer Miller]

Lower stances for power and stability, higher stances for speed and mobility... Both have their uses in Kumite.

 

BTW, if your near downtown LA, you can train at "Central" - Nishiyama's Dojo.

 

- Killer -

[kazuya Mishima]

I was told that lower stances are for kihon and kata and in kumite i should use a higer stance but when i counterattack i should change to a good and deep stance, thus my puch is stronger.

 

About being old style its not supposed to be exactly like that but i have a different point of view. Have you trained in a dojo afiliated to the wska? The shihan is Hitoshi Kasuya. When he came to give a 5days seminary i was the translator. Thus we spent a lot of time together (every day from 6 am to 10 pm). He told me that although JKa still uses very deep stances, he prefers to use a low stance but not so deep, and the make the stances shorter and the purpose was to prevent damage the knee (and the typical knee surgery that a lot of karateka have). When i was preparing to my shoa test my sensei (who was recently affiliated with him) told me to do that thing with the stances and i didn't know why, i believed it was just to practice a little more of speed. But 4 days after my test when i was speaking with Kasuya sensei he told me about it. I even in my test he asked me to make my stances shorter although deep, resulting in a stance a little higher than the usual shotokan people.

[SaiFightsMS]

I think one of the things that is happening in many schools is that the tremendous value of low stances is valued. I can honestly say that working in deep stance is much more effective at building leg strength than doing strength work in the weight room. All those trips across the floor in zenkutsu dachi made all the difference in the world in my being able to quit using the crutches.

 

But common sense and new medical and technical knowledge is getting blended in. There is a real effort to take the best of the traditional training and adapt it to what is known about anatomy and physiology. There is also an ever increasing number of people beginning training later in life and continuing to train later as well.

 

As things blend together a medium ground is being reached. The skill to do things in a matter as to gain the maximum strength benefit without damaging joints. The tradition lives yes and it evolves. It spreads so that more people are able to partake in the benefits.

[tenkamusou]

Well.. I guess in the end, it really depends on you... and the things you want to achieve with karate...

 

you can train your body, your mind, your health, etc...

 

sometimes you can do all of that at the same time... sometimes you can't....

[Faith]

Firstly I would Like to say hi

 

I am a virgin on this site, but I am going to bite the cherry and answer something that has always been taught to me during my training in shotokan, I have always been taught that my stances are to be kept low, and that it helps to improve your stability, and also by always training as low as you can when you need to go down into stance you wont have to think about it , it will be a natural action, maybe I am wrong maybe I am not but it has always worked for me, specailly during sparing sessions ect.

 

Hope I didnt make to much of a wally of myself

 

Bye for now Sarah