Unruly students/customers in modern era?

[KarateKen]

On 1/26/2025 at 5:09 PM, Himokiri Karate said:

I have been hearing more and more from my Dojang and the Japanese culture center that offers martial arts and other programs that I participate in about new students acting more like clients that want the whole "the customer is always right!" attitude.

My Dojang is a no nonsense place, I don't even do the belt system since I am a private student but the master mentioned that he is losing students because they want a black belt fast and that they don't like how he does not have a "Black belt club" or that he does not accept money for quicker promotion.


Now its been a while since I posted. Those familiar with me know that I come from a boxing background. This will be my forever martial arts in terms of primary style. But it seems like there is a shift in behavior of students within the martial arts ranking system. People want fast belts, quick promotions and want to be taught that befits their comfort level and if not, they will complain. I remember in the 90s, we never had this behavior. My Japanese language teacher mentioned it seems like a recent thing. Its very luxury fitness type attitude that spills over the martial arts world.

Is this a real thing? Have you encountered it in your community?

Haven't run into this too much in my training, all of my head instructors have been kind of old school, and I think a lot of those students get weeded out early on, though I have seen the occasional one who thinks they can skim by.

We had a student who was promoted to brown belt and then did not show up for class for a couple weeks.  When he came back, he got some public shaming about his lack of attendance which included "if these were the old days, I would have all the students surround you, pin you to the ground, take your belt off of you, then you would be told to change your clothes and leave."  But since that outdated, it did not happen, he was told that if he didn't get more serious, he would be demoted in rank.  Students where we train are expected to be more dedicated the higher the rank, and brown belt is where that kicks in the most, causing many students to quit.  I don't know this for fact, but I think it is in part to see who is serious about getting to black belt. 

 

As to a larger point, I think that issue of wanting instant gratification is becoming more and more common in the culture, especially among young people who grew up with cell phones and everything right in their hand, just a click away.  There also seems to be, among all age groups, an increased problem with entitlement. At least I have noticed that here in the United States in recent years.  Lots of people don't have the patience and just want what they want right away and don't care how it impacts anyone else.  

[DarthPenguin]

16 hours ago, KorroddyDude said:

I live in a pretty rough area, only because of a house that my wife inherited from her grandmother.  We're getting a lot more than we pay for, so we don't complain at all.

That said, my children also train in karate.  During my two-month BJJ stint in 2023, I tried to get them to come with me but they were uninterested.  When I decided recently that I was getting back into BJJ, my 12 year old daughter came to me and insisted that she train too.  When I questioned her sudden interest, she told me of an incident in the neighborhood I didn't know about: when it was time for her to use her karate against another girl who was attacking her, the girl was getting straight pummeled and eventually realized that she wasn't going to outstrike my daughter.  So she tackled my daughter to the ground, and that was all she wrote.  My daughter decided "never again" when I told her I was getting back into BJJ.

I explained to her the children's belt system, how it differs from the adult system, and how she has to be reevaluated upon ageing out of the children's system (i.e., there are no equivalents, and therefore no guarantee that she'll start the adult system at anything higher than a white belt).  She shrugged it off, and was unbothered.  All she cares about is not letting what happened to her last time happen again.

Sounds like your daughter has got exactly the right attitude to belts! MY son said something similar recently and i must admit i was really proud of him: he recently got awarded his 8th kai in judo (under 8's 'black belt' : white with black stripe through it) and was understandably proud as neither of us had ever seen anyone with it! What i was please at though was he said " i want to go to the bigger kids class now. I know i will probably lose a lot as the kids are bigger than me and i will take a while to get next belts but i will get better faster and then i will be much better than i am now". He was totally focused on the skill improvement rather than the belt which was (i thought) a very mature take for a little kid.

 

For me belts are a funny thing and i think peoples attitudes to them change the more they train / the longer they train for. After a while it does just (to me anyway) become a nice piece of material that tells me how hard i can safely go with someone when i spar them. I think bjj has helped with that a lot tbh as over time you get used to seeing really talented/skilled/athletic lower belts sometimes beating higher belts and it doesn't become as much of a big deal - no one (in my club anyway) questions someones belt level because someone 20 years younger, stronger fitter and faster beat them in a roll

[sensei8]

20 hours ago, aurik said:

I've run into this a bit with my son.  Our style and organization time-in-grade requirements for every rank, and minimum age for (adult) black belt ranks.  One thing that has frustrated him to a certain degree is that I have progressed significantly faster through the ranks than he has -- mainly because of the minimum age requirements.  I started at our dojo about a year after he did, but he started out as a junior belt (ages 4-6).  When he aged out of that program, I was already several promotions ahead of him in the kyu/dan ranking.  Also, he wasn't always wiling to put in the minimum classes required, so the CI would sometimes have his test date slip a month or two while he caught up.  By the time he was able to test for shodan-sho (junior 1st degree), I was testing for my senior nidan.  Likewise, by the time he is old enough to test for adult shodan, I'll most likely have tested for sandan.

I keep having to remind him that martial arts is a lifelong journey, not a sprint to the next belt.

Tell Zach that I know of his frustration because I was a JBB for 5 long years due to the Bylaws of our Governing Body. No students under the age of 18 years old can earn a Shodan.

I didn’t understand the reason(s) back then but after some time, I finally understood their reasoning behind that Bylaw.

Edited Tuesday at 04:27 PM by sensei8