A ´murderous disposition’

[sensei8]

I think that more overall commonality is that a criminal trained in the MA won’t even use their MA. Their only goal is to not get caught, and if they’re in a position of getting caught, they more than likely will use a gun to aide in their escape.

A CI isn’t responsible for how a student uses their MA away from the MA school. 

[Spartacus Maximus]

To avoid going too far off course in this discussion, what the old teachers meant by a « murderous disposition » was the kind of person who 

seems to look for an excuse to hurt someone or will purposely hurt others without concern for themselves and especially not others.

Has a confrontational attitude, a volatile and violent temper

Cannot control their emotions and deal with frustrations and lacks patience 

Is easily provoked to anger or violence by insignificant things.

Knowingly puts themselves in stupid positions, in dangerous places at dangerous.

As you can see, this applies to many types of undesirables whether they have a criminal background or not. 

In Japan and Okinawa and one or two occasions elsewhere there has been cases where someone was turned away because of supposed(not confirmed) ties to Organized Crime(quite a big deal in some locations). 

 

[KorroddyDude]

56 minutes ago, Spartacus Maximus said:

In Japan and Okinawa and one or two occasions elsewhere there has been cases where someone was turned away because of supposed(not confirmed) ties to Organized Crime(quite a big deal in some locations). 

And I would guess that such instances wouldn't have been the norm until around the late 1960's, when Japan had recovered from WWII and became considered a developed country.

I discussed before how some Okinawan masters themselves would be turned away by today's purported standards.  Remember, there was no "karate-do" in Okinawa at the time.  There was only "karate-jutsu" which had no moral component to it.

To put things into perspective, there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus was questioned for associating with sinners, and he responded by comparing himself to a doctor tending the sick.

Why are we not looking at karate-do the same way?

[Spartacus Maximus]

These are accounts heard personally, the most recent from about 5 years ago.

[bushido_man96]

On 1/19/2025 at 6:21 PM, sensei8 said:

I think that more overall commonality is that a criminal trained in the MA won’t even use their MA. Their only goal is to not get caught, and if they’re in a position of getting caught, they more than likely will use a gun to aide in their escape.

A CI isn’t responsible for how a student uses their MA away from the MA school. 

I agree with you here, but it wouldn't be strange for a CI to feel a sense of guilt for providing such student the skills used to commit untoward actions on others.

[Spartacus Maximus]

What makes the difference is the type and strength of bond an instructor has with the students. In the modern day, it is surely not a common occurrence for a martial arts instructor to feel personally and strongly responsible for a student’s misuse of what they teach. 
 

 

 

[bushido_man96]

I would feel such a way.  I don't want to create a bunch of bullies that are going out looking for an excuse to see if their skills will hold up.  That is something that I think must be addressed in training, teaching not only techniques, but also the responsibility that comes with having to use them.  Having good conversations with students about levels of use-of-force and the consequences that come with going overboard can be quite beneficial in that regard.