No touch KO

[iolair]

does anyone know how these work?

How it works is quite simple. The same points that are used with kyusho for hitting are activated. But instead of physical hit, they are activated with electricity. The human body is full of electricity, for example any move you make is created by the brain sending an electric current (a synapse) through the nervous conduits to the muscle(s), making the muscle(s) contract. That is also how the stupid AbTronic stuff they sell you on TV-Shop work: with electric current pumped into muscle. With some practice you can focus some electricity to some parts of your body. This is actually simpler than some make it feel, for instance, every time you move a muscle you do exactly that! You focus enough electric synapses to that muscle so it moves, it is mostly subconscious for a grown man. With training, it is possible to focus so much energy to some part of your body it can literally jump across some air if there's a proper conduit available. Everyone has seen this involuntarily (try rubbing your arm with a wool pullover for a few minutes, then go touch some metal - autch! You feel the sting of electricity.)

As a science teacher and physicist, I find this very hard to buy. I know all about bioelectricity, and have seen nothing to suggest this is possible. The human nervous system works on tiny potentials and currents, there is no way it can produce enough voltage to do this.

 

To knock someone out with electricity, you need up to 0.1 Amps of current running through their body. Human skin has an electrical resistance of at an absolute minimum 500 ohms; ususally much higher (it depends how clean your skin is, how damp it is etc). Ohm's law (Voltage = current x resistance) tells us that we therefore need at least 50V electric potential to cause the type of effect we're talking about here. The human body generally generates millivolts of electric potential.

 

Secondly, to discharge an electric voltage through air, without contact, also needs a high voltage, because air is an effective electrical insulator. In fact, thousands of volts are required before it is possble to discharge a current across an air gap.... (it takes 1.2kV per centimetre).

[Kirves]

To knock someone out with electricity, you need up to 0.1 Amps of current running through their body.

 

This was not about electricuting someone to unconsciousness. It was about triggering a nerve or acupuncture point.

 

But, please tell me, have you ever been to a competent kyusho jutsu instructor and asked him to show you? The seminars and schools are open to all. It is not like the "Yellow Bamboo" cult where they claim a dollar and show you a cent worth. You are welcomed to any public seminars and even if you don't ask to see something you will. And if you go up to the instructor and say "Hi, I'm still sceptical about this, could you please try knocking me out?", believe me, he will, you can probably ask a permission to film it on video too. After you have done this, tell me it was a hoax, didn't work. Show me a video where George Dillman tries to do his stuff on you and you just laugh when it doesn't work. I have never seen anyone accomplish that, even it was quite common a few years ago that people just marched into his seminars and said he's all bluff. None of them say a thing after that.

 

Here in Finland we have both the Dillman organization's schools, and another art from the same roots, called European Kyusho Jitsu Tuite (https://www.ekjt.net) and they have both shown their stuff to the public, even disbelievers are almost always there "to call their bluff", somehow they never have.

[LOILOI44]

No touch KO's are fascinating. It's something you could never do in a fight, but it just goes to show you how little we know about the human body. Iolair, great use of facts; but sometimes martial arts can defy science.

[ZeRo]

thanks guy, i like convos like this. although i find that somethings are hard to believe i also find it fascinating.

[Kirves]

thanks guy, i like convos like this. although i find that somethings are hard to believe i also find it fascinating.

 

Yeah it is fascinating when you go see it first hand. I must repeat that I do not study any of the known "kyusho" arts, just been to some seminars. So I don't know much more than what the instructors have said on the seminars. I've also seen two Dillman videos and interviews. So I am not saying anything about the effectiveness or too scientific about these (I guess even the masters don't really know how it all works down to molecule level) but I am all for open mindedness enough to give the benefit of the doubt and go see for your self.

[ZeRo]

Hey Zero.....since you are in SCJJ....why don't you send an email to Leon Jay and ask him about the no touch ko's....He has experience doing them also and is pretty easy to talk to.

 

dki girl

i was thinking about e-mailing him, but then i realised that i train with him so im gonna ask him tonight hopefully. thanks anyway.

[iolair]

No touch KO's are fascinating. It's something you could never do in a fight, but it just goes to show you how little we know about the human body. Iolair, great use of facts; but sometimes martial arts can defy science.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it's NOT going to be a transferred electrical pulse, as was suggested. BTW, does anyone have a UK contact/website for this style?

 

Thanks.

[Kirves]

Ask them: http://www.smallcirclejujitsu.co.uk/

[Karateka_latino]

A No Touch KO can never replace a good ol TOUCH KO..lol

[Kensai]

I have seen very similar things done in the Aikido dojo. Although I dont think I would believe it until it was done on me.