Karateka_latino Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Hello, read this article, have very interesting points.. http://bjj.org/editorials/19980308-tradjj/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonnyBoy Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Good article, good points. The problem with most traditional arts IMO, as we evolve, the arts we practice need to evovle too. There are always two choices, two paths. One choice is easy and its only reward is it's easy.It takes sacrifice to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I disagree. People talk about evolution, but the human body is exactly the same as it was 500, 1000 even 20000 years ago. The traditional japanese jujutsu (of all styles) was used to great effect by the Samurai which are unarguably some of the greatest unarmed and armed practioners ever. So whats changed. In essence nothing. So why do BJJ peeps do so much better. I think the first reason is that the majority of very talented Tradition Jujutsuka, dont want to fight. The TMA in general are not about fighting. Some say this is an excuse, but I dont believe so. Fighting in competition just does not interest alot of the TMAists. Thats not to say that NHB is not hard, but they are just not interested. I guess the main difference in the two styles is that BJJ is more or less designed for the ring, one on one, NHB nasty stuff. Where as the TMA are designed to take on large qualitys of less skilled attackers in a life or death situation. This is not a TMA Vs BJJ flame war........ we all know how they go BJJ rules and everyone can see it. But my art is so deadly you cant practice it a full resistance. Well in BJJ I know it works. Then the Wing CHun people argue with eachother Well you have never studied my art so you cant judge it. And you cant even pronounce my arts name and no one in living memory can either. Oh yea well, Kimura beat Helio Well Helio beat just about everyone else. Blah blah blah. Times have changed in that society says that wondering about with a sword and chopping off peoples heads is a bad thing. So the only way you can tryly test yourself is in the ring. But who says that we should be tested in that way. Also, most people dont train in the TMA as hard as they should. Learning a TMA is a life times work, and 7 days a week 365 years a year. But the majority of people just cant commit to that with School, Uni, family and work. If I trained a hard of O Sensei, I am pretty confident that I would do pretty good in NHB. But thats not the point, the point is that TMA is about not fighting. With over 500 years of constant war, the TMA greats instilled the art of Budo into every TMA. Mainly so the same thing would not happen again. Just IMVHO ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirves Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I think the single biggest issue is time and commitment. If you want to win the UFC you have to become a pro. Or train like one anyway! This means 4-8 hours training every day. You can't do this with 8-10 hour career, three children, building/fixing the house, keeping your wife happy and going to see an occasional Seagal movie once in a while. Just not possible. You have to drop school or quit your job to give the dedication needed for UFC stuff. And you have to do it for years before you're better than the Gracies. And if you're 45 before you figure this all out, it's already too late: all the Gracies begun daily training when they were children! How on Earth can you compare a 45 yrs old family man who begun training at 20 and has trained 8 hours a week to a man who is now 35, started at age of 5, trains 8 hours A DAY and was born to a family of handful of training partners and a father and grandfather who were black belt masters to begin with. There never can be a comparison and there even shouldn't be if you see the facts. Now if you say to the 45 years old man who trains 8 hours a week that unless he goes to the ring with the 35 years old, risk his health and livelihood to show that he might beat him, or you think he is a coward - what do you think he thinks? NOT INTERESTED. Period. I just keep wondering why so many people can't see the reason why they won't fight in a cage. Gsus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Was that Rant at me, because I cant really tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venezolano Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Totally agree with the link Valencia - Venezuela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirves Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Was that Rant at me, because I cant really tell. Sorry, no it wasn't at you. I begun as mostly agreeing with you, then I went off on a tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonnyBoy Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 People talk about evolution, but the human body is exactly the same as it was 500, 1000 even 20000 years ago. I never said the human body has changed. But, that is debatable...Also, most people dont train in the TMA as hard as they should. Learning a TMA is a life times work, and 7 days a week 365 years a year. But the majority of people just cant commit to that with School, Uni, family and work. Which to me suggests that as we evolve, we need to modify or create new arts to accompany our lifestyle. If we can't train 7x a week, how can we truly hope to become proficient in traditional arts? There are always two choices, two paths. One choice is easy and its only reward is it's easy.It takes sacrifice to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Very true and a good point. But I dont do Martial Arts to become super proficient. Also I will never be as good as O Sensei, in the same way that most BJJers will never be as good as Helio. Helio was a pro, he trained all the time. Do you think if he did 4 hours a week he would be ask good as he is. There are no quick and easy answers no matter the style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heel Hook Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 People have changed in the past 50 years never mind 20,000 and what not. How they have changed is by size and strength. So in turn techniques have changed to modify and deal with much stronger people. Yes, so the techniques have reformed and modulated to be more exact and precise in what they must do. Many things have changed because of size and strength differences that never had be dealt with 50 years ago. That is something that can't be argued. Evolution in technique has happened just like it has in man. Techniques will ever change because of new fighting styles, but at first it started because of the evolution of man. Helio Gracie (newest 'grappling magazine') has said this himself so-to-speak. "Fighters are much bigger and stronger then they use to be" That was said in the sense of how martial athletes train with weights more and the whatnot. But in truth, Helio changed the Japanese techs because they needed to be refined...why...because people and their bodies are different. Size Strength This is how man has changed in the past 50 years never mind 2,000 years ago when grappling was born. Grappling has changed because of evolution in man and his technique in fighting. "A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. " -Rener Gracie- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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