Tachimura no Naihanchi bunkai in other kata?

[karate guy232]

Is the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi present in other kata (specifically from Anko Itosu's kata?)

I have heard that kata like Pinan Shodan - Pinan Godan were made to be beginner versions of higher level kata like Naihanchi and Kushanku. So is it possible that these kata made by Itosu somehow have the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi and Tachimura no Kushanku since Naihanchi and Kushanku were passed down from Tode Sakugawa?

It also seems like scissor throw (the shuto ashi harai) in Tachimura no Naihanchi is also present in Gekisai dai ichi (and gekisai dai ni). Then again I could also be wrong, these are my observations after all.

For context I'm asking this because I have a friend who does Shorin ryu (I could ask him to teach me a few kata at least until I can learn Kishimotodi kata) and It'd be cool if I could use the bunkai from other styles in Kakie.

Thanks!

[bushido_man96]

If the move sets match to a point, then it would be reasonable to consider that similar move sets (say across two to four moves or so) from different katas could use the same bunkai.

[Montana]

I've been in Shorin Ryu since 1975. ALL movements in ALL kata have multiple applications and yes, they can transfer from one kata to another.

[Fat Cobra]

In our lineage, we do all 5 Pinan Katas and they are considered the breakdown katas for Kusanku.

[Wastelander]

Is the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi present in other kata (specifically from Anko Itosu's kata?)

Yes and no. The applications for Tachimura no Naihanchi work because of the mechanics used in that kata, and those mechanics are generally not used in Itosu's kata. You can still use those applications, or take inspiration from them, but they won't totally fit the way the kata are practiced. There are, of course, a few that will work even if you change the mechanics, and those are the easiest to make a connection between the two styles.

I have heard that kata like Pinan Shodan - Pinan Godan were made to be beginner versions of higher level kata like Naihanchi and Kushanku. So is it possible that these kata made by Itosu somehow have the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi and Tachimura no Kushanku since Naihanchi and Kushanku were passed down from Tode Sakugawa?

They are really made from Passai, Kusanku, and Chinto, more than Naihanchi, although Naihanchi does tie into Passai and Kusanku, historically. I'm sure that he considered applications when building the Pinan kata, but he was also using his Naha-Te (learned from Nagahama) to reshape the kata that he learned from Matsumura. I believe that is why there is such a significant difference between how Itosu's kata are performed and how KishimotoDi, or even Matsumura Seito or Ryukyu Kenpo are performed.

It also seems like scissor throw (the shuto ashi harai) in Tachimura no Naihanchi is also present in Gekisai dai ichi (and gekisai dai ni). Then again I could also be wrong, these are my observations after all.

The sweep in Gekisai is definitely similar to the scissor throws in Tachimura no Naihanchi, but is very upright, without any sinkin/rising action, and usually without much twisting. A more similar technique is actually the gedan-barai in Pinan Godan, just before the hammerfist/elbow sequence.

For context I'm asking this because I have a friend who does Shorin ryu (I could ask him to teach me a few kata at least until I can learn Kishimotodi kata) and It'd be cool if I could use the bunkai from other styles in Kakie.

You can ALWAYS use the applications from any style in your practice, and use it to help inform your training. Even if they don't exactly match up, they can provide inspiration or be useful tools, on their own.

[karate guy232]

Is the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi present in other kata (specifically from Anko Itosu's kata?)

Yes and no. The applications for Tachimura no Naihanchi work because of the mechanics used in that kata, and those mechanics are generally not used in Itosu's kata. You can still use those applications, or take inspiration from them, but they won't totally fit the way the kata are practiced. There are, of course, a few that will work even if you change the mechanics, and those are the easiest to make a connection between the two styles.

I have heard that kata like Pinan Shodan - Pinan Godan were made to be beginner versions of higher level kata like Naihanchi and Kushanku. So is it possible that these kata made by Itosu somehow have the bunkai from Tachimura no Naihanchi and Tachimura no Kushanku since Naihanchi and Kushanku were passed down from Tode Sakugawa?

They are really made from Passai, Kusanku, and Chinto, more than Naihanchi, although Naihanchi does tie into Passai and Kusanku, historically. I'm sure that he considered applications when building the Pinan kata, but he was also using his Naha-Te (learned from Nagahama) to reshape the kata that he learned from Matsumura. I believe that is why there is such a significant difference between how Itosu's kata are performed and how KishimotoDi, or even Matsumura Seito or Ryukyu Kenpo are performed.

It also seems like scissor throw (the shuto ashi harai) in Tachimura no Naihanchi is also present in Gekisai dai ichi (and gekisai dai ni). Then again I could also be wrong, these are my observations after all.

The sweep in Gekisai is definitely similar to the scissor throws in Tachimura no Naihanchi, but is very upright, without any sinkin/rising action, and usually without much twisting. A more similar technique is actually the gedan-barai in Pinan Godan, just before the hammerfist/elbow sequence.

For context I'm asking this because I have a friend who does Shorin ryu (I could ask him to teach me a few kata at least until I can learn Kishimotodi kata) and It'd be cool if I could use the bunkai from other styles in Kakie.

You can ALWAYS use the applications from any style in your practice, and use it to help inform your training. Even if they don't exactly match up, they can provide inspiration or be useful tools, on their own.

Thanks for answering my question