Martial_Artist Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 Just to help clarify. KALI is not a Filipino word. It is an adopted word applied to an art used widely and practiced in the Philippines. But Kali is not tagalog, ilocano, visayan, cebuano, hilgaynon, ybanag, itawis, waray-waray, or any of the other 80+ dialects spoken in the Philippines. Neither is the word SILAT. ESKRIMA and ARNIS are the words commonly associated to filipino stick arts. ARNIS being more understood by those not in the martial arts community. Go to the provinces and people will more often than not understand you when you refer to ARNIS. But say KALI, SILAT and you'll get more blank stares than comprehension. ESKRIMA is what the martial artists in Manila call their art on the street. My knowledge of this comes from having spent many years living in the Philippines (Northern Luzon and Metro Manila). I speak Tagalog and Ilocano fluently, I can communicate in Visayan. I admit to not having historical knowledge concerning origins or migrations, but I am a recognized authority on the Filipino language. I taught it in the Philippines to foreigners. NOTE TO FILIPINOS: "Di, po ba? Pumunta kayo sa pinas at tanong kayo tungkol sa kali, silat; sino ba'ng nakakaalam niyan? E, 'di yung mga dayuhan at mga pinoy na gumagamit ng salitang kali at silat dahil sa pagsasalin ng kano sa bansa natin. Pero kung sa taumbayan kayo magtanong, ARNIS ang ginagamit nilang salita. 'Di po ba?" "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
StormKrow Posted February 14, 2003 Posted February 14, 2003 Still haven't found the reference...but here's something to take note of.... Not the reference I was looking for but here's one... http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/~loki/Kali/escrima.html Also, Visayas, which as we know is one of the main island groups in the Philippines, bears a striking resemblence to the Hindi word, "Vaisyas"....coincidence? There's enough evidence to support that Kali did in fact come from India....are you prepared to concede the point?...or do I need to go on?To my knowledge, Kali actually gets its origin from India...(then of course migrated thru Indo-China, and made its way to the Phillipines. So in what part of India can I see indian kali?[/url] ---You can run.......but why die tired?
magikchiongson Posted February 14, 2003 Posted February 14, 2003 Probably comes from the Sri Visayan Empire of Indonesia, Philippines and Southern Thailand. Kali is an Indian term, however kali the martial arts is a invention using the word Kali. But just because it sounds like its tied to India, doesn't mean it is. I own you.
StormKrow Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Haven't studied much word etomology and language migration, have ya? It is commong knowledge that pre-Aryan invasion, the Indian people traveled all over East Asian, and Asia Minor, and more than likely made their way 'cross the land brige to the Philippine Island chain. Ask any archeologist, they'll confirm it. Why do you think the Siamese language, looks so much like San Skrit? It was not uncommong for Brahman preists to make pilgrimages to distant lands in an attempt to pass their knowledge...some what of a pre-historic evangelist. This practice was encouraged under Vedic law, and was seen as the duty of sub-priets. Anyway, long and short of it, San Skirt is the root language of Thai, Pali, Kuy, and Lavna, if they made it *that* far into South East Asia, it's a safe bet they made it to the Maharlikas...Probably comes from the Sri Visayan Empire of Indonesia, Philippines and Southern Thailand. Kali is an Indian term, however kali the martial arts is a invention using the word Kali. But just because it sounds like its tied to India, doesn't mean it is. ---You can run.......but why die tired?
magikchiongson Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Storm you're funny. I think you're missing the whole point of the discussion. Sri Visayan was a Hindu Empire, nobody in here is arguing whether India had a huge influence in the SE region. Of course it did. The focus is on Kali, the word, Kali the art. Firstly its not an Indian Art, Secondly Kali may have an Indian meaning but it has none in any Filipino Dialect. Why an Eskrima practioner would call his Art Kali is beyond me. Its like me practicing Greco/roman wrestling and calling my interpretation of it Karate. You're talking about Kali the word, while others are talking about Kali the Art. Kali the Art and Kali the Goddess have nothing in common. If you're gonna try to prove that Kali the MA came from India, just name an Indian Master who studied Kali, or an Indian martial Art that is similar to Kali. You're gonna have to do better than just say ohh this word sounds like this word so they must be related. Kali the Art is a very modern term, and people have trouble trying to explain where it came from. Hindu Goddess? Indonesian Volcano? Kalirongan? Tjakalele? Kalis? Its just a name a man choose to name his particular MA. I own you.
Kirves Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Kali the Art is a very modern term, and people have trouble trying to explain where it came from. Inosanto explained the etymology of the word in his book "Filipino Martial Arts". I don't remember the explanation any more, but it told where and from what word in which language it was derived from. Kali isn't a word understood by any of today's language (in this sense, of course some language may have a word kali meaning something, but that's beside the point), but it is a derivation of another similar word from an ancient language (or something like that). If someone here has that book, please check it out!
magikchiongson Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Well Dan also said that Kali was the term used to describe the Arts practiced in the Southern Islands, and that's obviously wrong. The problem I was having with Dan and others who tried to explain Kali was that they were basing everything on what a word sounded like. Like Kali was an offshoot of Tjakalele, when the two arts are nothing alike. I own you.
shortstick Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 This is a great conversation. I will not even try to give any comment of worth...... kali, Silat, Eskrima, just pick up the stick and hit me! "The more we change, the more we stay the same"
thekuntawman Posted March 24, 2003 Posted March 24, 2003 you will have more about the similarity from arnis to eskrima to "kali" which some people think is a philippine martial arts. but the difference to kali, is, they are using the name because he never been to the philippines, or he is trying to make you think his style is older than the people who say "arnis" or "eskrima". there is more in common between silat and kuntaw, which are basically the same thing, regardless of what the dutch try to tell you. but there is a difference between filipino kuntaw, and "kuntaw ng pilipinas", which is the organization of carlito lanada, which resembles more like japanese karate. many people study only the skin of the philippine martial arts, so they lost out, since our native arts have so much to teach you about fighting and true combat. people get lost in the politics, the rankings, the drills, the stories and posings of tough guy want to be instructors, and titles. they do not stay around long enough to gain the benefit of studying a warrior art and making there art a way of life for them. instead, they buy video and go to seminars. when they get bored, or hear of a new style they didnt know before, they switch over. so these poor people (poor in knowledge, not money) do only get the skin of the art, and never learn the deeper parts of the art which make you a tougher, smarter fighter. experience is theories you have proven to yourself, to be true. martial artist need experience, not theories.
Martial_Artist Posted March 24, 2003 Posted March 24, 2003 Korek ka diyan. "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
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