How should black belts train?

[ryanryu]

We hear all the time that advanced students must “be their own sensei” while at the same time we hear that black belt is “just the beginning”. How do you/have you managed this transition?

This seems like a common problem given that the majority of students are not black belts and the majority of teachers are more experienced training students up to black belt. But what then? Are yudansha just left to their own devices? Should a sandan be practicing the same way as a shodan?

The rank is a convenient symbol here, but it's the same question for any martial artist who has reached that milestone of training.

[Zaine]

This is a good question, and will likely have multiple correct answers. I'll give what I think should be done, and then what I did. For me, if there is still material to learn (as there often is after Shodan), the black belts should be largely training at their dojos. I have found that it is common for material to exist up to San or Yondan, and afterwards the promotions are based on what the student brings to the school (i.e. their teaching, new techniques, new ways of using old techniques, etc.). In this, black belts are certainly left largely to their own devices in that they need less attention (or should need less attention). Holding a black belt class once a week to continue their training should be enough. Shodans will need a little more guidance as they transition to less attention paid towards them going forward, but after a month or 2 I would expect them to be largely practicing in the same way as a Sandan. After you learn the material left, it is my opinion that you should be going to other schools and learning new styles to both enhance your own understanding and contribute to whatever base style you wish to practice. Learning a Korean or Chinese style after a Japanese or Okinawan one is extremely beneficial.

For me, my teacher stopped teaching shortly after I got my Shodan, so I was on my own. There was more to learn (like... a lot more) that I no longer had, or have, for that matter, access to. I dived into other styles. I did kung fu for awhile, then moved on to HEMA, and most recently a different style of Shorin Ryu. I made my journey post-black belt my own. It was tough without a guide, and I'm still just a Shodan, but I have enjoyed it nonetheless.

[username18526]

Yudansha should always train as if they were white belts.

[bushido_man96]

This is a good question, and will likely have multiple correct answers. I'll give what I think should be done, and then what I did. For me, if there is still material to learn (as there often is after Shodan), the black belts should be largely training at their dojos. I have found that it is common for material to exist up to San or Yondan, and afterwards the promotions are based on what the student brings to the school (i.e. their teaching, new techniques, new ways of using old techniques, etc.). In this, black belts are certainly left largely to their own devices in that they need less attention (or should need less attention). Holding a black belt class once a week to continue their training should be enough. Shodans will need a little more guidance as they transition to less attention paid towards them going forward, but after a month or 2 I would expect them to be largely practicing in the same way as a Sandan. After you learn the material left, it is my opinion that you should be going to other schools and learning new styles to both enhance your own understanding and contribute to whatever base style you wish to practice. Learning a Korean or Chinese style after a Japanese or Okinawan one is extremely beneficial.

For me, my teacher stopped teaching shortly after I got my Shodan, so I was on my own. There was more to learn (like... a lot more) that I no longer had, or have, for that matter, access to. I dived into other styles. I did kung fu for awhile, then moved on to HEMA, and most recently a different style of Shorin Ryu. I made my journey post-black belt my own. It was tough without a guide, and I'm still just a Shodan, but I have enjoyed it nonetheless.

Lots of good advice in here. My journey has been a little bit different, but not much. Just like when strength training, there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to fine tuning your Martial Arts training. You see big jumps in technical improvement from white belt to the intermediate ranks, and then some (but not as much) from the intermediate ranks into the pre-black belt and 1st dan ranks.

As I've gotten more advanced, I harp on making sure I have my stuff memorized, and then when I'm having trouble with techniques, or a string of techniques, I figure it's pretty much up to me to figure out how to break them down and make them better. Balance is a thing I have issues with now, especially in some transitions between stances. I have to break them out and drill them.

I find myself experimenting with different things when it comes to working self-defense techniques. I end up with a combination of concepts from my training in class, and from the various defensive tactics courses I've taken.

It's also worthwhile to seek out another style, like Zaine mentioned. There's an Aikido dojo in town that I trained at for a brief stint years ago, and if I ever test for my 5th dan, I may consider spending time at that dojo again. I don't agree with all of the philosophies and approaches at that dojo, but I can still learn some things there, that's for sure.

[Wastelander]

I had a somewhat unique experience with this, in that my late Sensei required his students to know the ENTIRE curriculum for Shodan (this was the organization's requirement for GODAN). This meant that I had no new curriculum to learn after I reached black belt, which is not the case for most karateka, although eventually the organization did add some more required drills that I then had to pick up. My Sensei's idea with this was that black belts should spend their time both refining and exploring their karate. He would give corrections, as needed, but more often he would provide food for thought, and point out possibilities, so that you could then work through that on your own and with partners. He wanted you to be coming up with your own interpretations for how kata could be applied, and your own drills, and your own training regimen. He also wanted his brown and black belts to teach at least one class a week, because teaching actually helps you learn in a brand new way, and he would even join in as a student in those classes, and just follow along with how you ran the class. Personally, I think it was a great experience, and it set me up well for his passing, but I still wish I could be training with him, to this day.

[sensei8]

Our Soke and Dai-Soke were not great fans of promoting Dan ranks by what they've brought of any positive notice to Shindokan whether it be directly or indirectly. Those actional types were reserved for the Shogo Titles.

Once Shodan, and all the way up to Hachidan, those black belt level were required to train as though our lives depended on it. Matter of fact, we trained even harder with Soke and Dai-Soke than ever...that was expected and if any Yudansha thought they were special or that they were going to coast, well, they were sadly mistaken.

No less than three black belt or advanced classes had to be attended each week, especially if you were a In-House black belt. Whenever I was in a position where I wasn't In-House anymore, I still trained at the Hombu once or every other month for a solid week with Dai-Soke.

Both Soke and Dai-Soke's core to their promotional consideration stemmed from the level of maturity of that Yudansha. No improved maturity of self and technique meant no promotional consideration.

When they both passed away our training was stymied, but it never ended because training to improve owns MA betterment and maturity is a never-ending journey...so it still goes on.

[username18526]

I had a somewhat unique experience with this, in that my late Sensei required his students to know the ENTIRE curriculum for Shodan (this was the organization's requirement for GODAN). This meant that I had no new curriculum to learn after I reached black belt, which is not the case for most karateka, although eventually the organization did add some more required drills that I then had to pick up. My Sensei's idea with this was that black belts should spend their time both refining and exploring their karate. He would give corrections, as needed, but more often he would provide food for thought, and point out possibilities, so that you could then work through that on your own and with partners. He wanted you to be coming up with your own interpretations for how kata could be applied, and your own drills, and your own training regimen. He also wanted his brown and black belts to teach at least one class a week, because teaching actually helps you learn in a brand new way, and he would even join in as a student in those classes, and just follow along with how you ran the class. Personally, I think it was a great experience, and it set me up well for his passing, but I still wish I could be training with him, to this day.

This is where I am as independent practitioner, not as a student of a particular organization. I find myself experimenting with my own interpretations of kata that I know make sense in my eyes. I'm constantly reminding myself to always polish up my BASICS to perfection so that I can teach to the best of my ability to anyone new and eager to learn.

[bushido_man96]

I had a somewhat unique experience with this, in that my late Sensei required his students to know the ENTIRE curriculum for Shodan (this was the organization's requirement for GODAN). This meant that I had no new curriculum to learn after I reached black belt, which is not the case for most karateka, although eventually the organization did add some more required drills that I then had to pick up. My Sensei's idea with this was that black belts should spend their time both refining and exploring their karate. He would give corrections, as needed, but more often he would provide food for thought, and point out possibilities, so that you could then work through that on your own and with partners. He wanted you to be coming up with your own interpretations for how kata could be applied, and your own drills, and your own training regimen. He also wanted his brown and black belts to teach at least one class a week, because teaching actually helps you learn in a brand new way, and he would even join in as a student in those classes, and just follow along with how you ran the class. Personally, I think it was a great experience, and it set me up well for his passing, but I still wish I could be training with him, to this day.

I think this is very awesome. I remember seeing the videos your instructor was doing, and how well put together they were. It seems like he didn't have an issue with ego either, making him very pliable as an instructor, and a student. You had a great experience.

[ryanryu]

Thanks for the replies! Lots to think about here –

I'll give what I think should be done, and then what I did.

Lol martial arts training definitely increases self-awareness. For myself, I ended up doing mostly what Zaine suggested – sticking with the dojo and moving up those first few ranks. The challenge was that my dojo closed shortly after I got my Shodan-Ho and I went from training 3-4x/week to once on Saturdays. In hindsight, that probably actually helped me stick with training because I suddenly had to become much more mature about it. And it forced me to develop the skill of training alone, which every black belt needs as the training goes from “dojo-centric” to “student-centric”.

Balance is a thing I have issues with now, especially in some transitions between stances.

I wasn’t even thinking about this aspect in my OP, but I've made similar changes as I’ve transitioned from Young Gun to … Not As Young As I Used to Be Gun and different parts of my training have become more/less important. The fitness aspect of my Karate has grown more important to me as other life demands chewed into my workout time – I don't have time to jog, lift, and run kata like I used to, so the kata I do train better get the blood pumping.

my late Sensei required his students to know the ENTIRE curriculum for Shodan

Sounds like the menkyo certificates in other Japanese arts. I sometimes wonder if that isn’t better – after all if someone put these kata together purposely into a curriculum… seems like there is some mastery to be gained from learning it all. Or put another way – it seems very difficult to get the full benefit of the art without learning the full curriculum.

as independent practitioner, not as a student of a particular organization.

The common themes in these replies – that you continue investigating your art, you tailor it to your own needs, you teach it to others, etc. – are all about your practice and your understanding. It is a personal journey. So in some sense I expect most people who stick with it to have some independence, whether by choice or necessity. (I’m also independent of any organization if you can’t tell)

[bushido_man96]

as independent practitioner, not as a student of a particular organization.

The common themes in these replies – that you continue investigating your art, you tailor it to your own needs, you teach it to others, etc. – are all about your practice and your understanding. It is a personal journey. So in some sense I expect most people who stick with it to have some independence, whether by choice or necessity. (I’m also independent of any organization if you can’t tell)

I honestly think this is how it was done mostly, especially in the times when it was more commonplace to have only a few dedicated students. I think more standardization has taken hold for longer with the onset of larger class sizes and with many students coming through the halls.