Did Okinawans teach Japanese Karate or was it appropriated?

[tatsujin]

One thing I learned from yoga that I keep forgetting is, yoga that is marketed is what exercise is to martial arts in terms of warming up, stretching and prepping for the actual session. What I mean is, the whole point of yoga is to prime yourself for the main course sort of speak. The yoga asanas allow you to reach a state of relaxation so that the chakra work and the deep esoteric chakra meditation sessions can be done in a state in which the body is relaxed and not angsty. After yoga, I feel so relaxed and chilled. This is a good state to be in when working with the powers that be.

Well, I don't know the full width and depth of what you may be referring to here, so what follows may be implicitly implied here. But, I think it is worth stating to be clear...

When you refer to asanas, then I am assuming that you are speaking more to the more "modern" use of the term (descending primarily from that hatha tradition and then more modern versions). I only make that distinction because the original use of the term was referring to seated meditation poses. Not saying that anything is "right" or "wrong" here, but just trying to clarify for the purposed of framing everything correctly.

The asanas are certainly good for "stretching" the muscles, tendons, fascia, etc. Even, to an extent, the nadis (नदी) or the jingluo (经络) for those of us from a Chinese persuasion (meridians). And, this is good in a micro sense. Meaning, there is nothing wrong with doing them in and of themselves. The problem is when this is all there is to it. Sorry...I am writing this as kinda of a brain dump as I go and I am afraid I am not making sense here. My apologies to you and everyone else reading this if it seems a bit disorganized or scattered...let me keep going...

As I understand what you are talking about (and I may have it wrong) and what is generally taught in most kundalini traditions (especially the more modern ones) is that the asanas are taught and then the move directly into the work to open the chakras (more or less, I am just trying to cover the high points here). The problem is that you need a more broad foundation than just that...to be safe and prevent potential problems.

A "for example" situation...

From my Taoist studies, I can teach you just breath work (kokyo-ho - 呼吸法 - for the Japanese/Okinawan karate folks). This alone can make you healthier and/or feel better. It can make your martial arts better. It can help with mental clarity and acuity. Many, many benefits. But, it is just a portion of the foundation. I can also teach you meditation work (meiso-ho - 瞑想法). Again, as a standalone skill, many benefits. But, again, also just a part of the total foundation.

The point here is that the asanas are just one of the building blocks that you need to start down that road. If you are not utilizing all of those building blocks, then you run into the potential for "danger".

Another example...I don't know the specific tradition or school you are following for the chakra or kundalini work, so it may vary slightly. One of the first main things you should want to do is open or activate the Sushumna nadi (सुषुम्णा). To do that, you first have to reach a balance or equilibrium in the Ida (इडा) and Pingala (पिङ्गल) nadi. To do THAT, you have to activate the smaller nadi (nadikas) that attach to the Ida and Pingala nadi. So, you start with swara sadhana (स्वर साधन) which are, at the most basic level, breathing exercises. If, in part, all of the above is not done or done correctly before moving on, than the kundalini shakti (कुण्डलिनी शक्ति) is either not going to move upwards OR, if it does, will cause you all sorts of problems. AND...all of what I just went through was just a small part of the overall pranayama (प्राणायाम) methods.

SIDE NOTE: All of what I am speaking to above is based on exposure to Kalaripayattu (or just Kalari) of India (Northern and Southern). Because of my interest and work in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and, in particular, the application of the associated vital points to the martial arts. Ayurveda is a part of Kalari. Ayurveda is divided into eight categories (Shalyatantra) and Marmashastra (the science or use of marmas) is one of them. Again, for those not familiar, the marmas are what you would think of as the pressure point or vital points that lay along the lines of the nadis or meridians. Your mileage may vary. But, if it does, then you might have more information here to follow up on.

Qi Gong sounds like an umbrella term for many things.

It is! Remember, qigong (気功) or kiko just means energy work. So it is very generic without more context...like wuxing qigong (五形気功) or five element energy work. There, it is refined down a little.

Speaking of Hung Ga, I believe this particular Kung Fu gave birth to Karate or was one of the main styles that inspired karate if I recall correctly.

Well, Hung Ga is a Southern China martial art. But, I have never read anything that indicated that this particular art was an influence on Okinawan "karate". I would suspect that the white crane arts...in particular

Mínghequan (鳴鶴拳) Whooping or Crying Crane, Monk Fist Boxing (Luohanquan - 罗汉拳), Five Ancestors Fist (Wuzuquan - 五祖 拳) and, more recently proposed Incense Shop Boxing/Fist (Xiang Dian Quan - 香店拳).

Wow...I really went into ramble mode here! LOL! Sorry, too much coffee this morning I guess. Hope it is of some benefit to you.

[Himokiri Karate]

One thing I learned from yoga that I keep forgetting is, yoga that is marketed is what exercise is to martial arts in terms of warming up, stretching and prepping for the actual session. What I mean is, the whole point of yoga is to prime yourself for the main course sort of speak. The yoga asanas allow you to reach a state of relaxation so that the chakra work and the deep esoteric chakra meditation sessions can be done in a state in which the body is relaxed and not angsty. After yoga, I feel so relaxed and chilled. This is a good state to be in when working with the powers that be.

Well, I don't know the full width and depth of what you may be referring to here, so what follows may be implicitly implied here. But, I think it is worth stating to be clear...

When you refer to asanas, then I am assuming that you are speaking more to the more "modern" use of the term (descending primarily from that hatha tradition and then more modern versions). I only make that distinction because the original use of the term was referring to seated meditation poses. Not saying that anything is "right" or "wrong" here, but just trying to clarify for the purposed of framing everything correctly.

The asanas are certainly good for "stretching" the muscles, tendons, fascia, etc. Even, to an extent, the nadis (नदी) or the jingluo (经络) for those of us from a Chinese persuasion (meridians). And, this is good in a micro sense. Meaning, there is nothing wrong with doing them in and of themselves. The problem is when this is all there is to it. Sorry...I am writing this as kinda of a brain dump as I go and I am afraid I am not making sense here. My apologies to you and everyone else reading this if it seems a bit disorganized or scattered...let me keep going...

As I understand what you are talking about (and I may have it wrong) and what is generally taught in most kundalini traditions (especially the more modern ones) is that the asanas are taught and then the move directly into the work to open the chakras (more or less, I am just trying to cover the high points here). The problem is that you need a more broad foundation than just that...to be safe and prevent potential problems.

A "for example" situation...

From my Taoist studies, I can teach you just breath work (kokyo-ho - 呼吸法 - for the Japanese/Okinawan karate folks). This alone can make you healthier and/or feel better. It can make your martial arts better. It can help with mental clarity and acuity. Many, many benefits. But, it is just a portion of the foundation. I can also teach you meditation work (meiso-ho - 瞑想法). Again, as a standalone skill, many benefits. But, again, also just a part of the total foundation.

The point here is that the asanas are just one of the building blocks that you need to start down that road. If you are not utilizing all of those building blocks, then you run into the potential for "danger".

Another example...I don't know the specific tradition or school you are following for the chakra or kundalini work, so it may vary slightly. One of the first main things you should want to do is open or activate the Sushumna nadi (सुषुम्णा). To do that, you first have to reach a balance or equilibrium in the Ida (इडा) and Pingala (पिङ्गल) nadi. To do THAT, you have to activate the smaller nadi (nadikas) that attach to the Ida and Pingala nadi. So, you start with swara sadhana (स्वर साधन) which are, at the most basic level, breathing exercises. If, in part, all of the above is not done or done correctly before moving on, than the kundalini shakti (कुण्डलिनी शक्ति) is either not going to move upwards OR, if it does, will cause you all sorts of problems. AND...all of what I just went through was just a small part of the overall pranayama (प्राणायाम) methods.

SIDE NOTE: All of what I am speaking to above is based on exposure to Kalaripayattu (or just Kalari) of India (Northern and Southern). Because of my interest and work in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and, in particular, the application of the associated vital points to the martial arts. Ayurveda is a part of Kalari. Ayurveda is divided into eight categories (Shalyatantra) and Marmashastra (the science or use of marmas) is one of them. Again, for those not familiar, the marmas are what you would think of as the pressure point or vital points that lay along the lines of the nadis or meridians. Your mileage may vary. But, if it does, then you might have more information here to follow up on.

Qi Gong sounds like an umbrella term for many things.

It is! Remember, qigong (気功) or kiko just means energy work. So it is very generic without more context...like wuxing qigong (五形気功) or five element energy work. There, it is refined down a little.

Speaking of Hung Ga, I believe this particular Kung Fu gave birth to Karate or was one of the main styles that inspired karate if I recall correctly.

Well, Hung Ga is a Southern China martial art. But, I have never read anything that indicated that this particular art was an influence on Okinawan "karate". I would suspect that the white crane arts...in particular

Mínghequan (鳴鶴拳) Whooping or Crying Crane, Monk Fist Boxing (Luohanquan - 罗汉拳), Five Ancestors Fist (Wuzuquan - 五祖 拳) and, more recently proposed Incense Shop Boxing/Fist (Xiang Dian Quan - 香店拳).

Wow...I really went into ramble mode here! LOL! Sorry, too much coffee this morning I guess. Hope it is of some benefit to you.

Lol got to avoid caffeine, it overloads the energy. Also I got your PM and replied and with that understanding I will clarify few things. What I mean by warm up is, in karate, you are not going to throw high kicks out of nowhere, the body has to go to a process of waking up in terms of getting the circulation going. Its like diets, your first meal or "break fast" is not going to be something heavy. You start with something light as oppose to a kings feast.

I have heard of Kalari and in a series called HSDK, there was a kalaripayttu master and there was also a scythe master named Michael Schtilvay:) Ogata and Michael are my favorite characters. In a way, Ogata was using dangerous and forbidden techniques as a power enhancement.

I will stay away from meridians, I am not qualified to have an opinion on it and so I can only learn more. In the yoga we do in respect to David's book, we use several forms of meditation for the following:

Developing relaxation

Developing visualization

Developing Focus

Developing will power

These different techniques are designed to create a platform for the work we do. Like Qi Gong, a meditation can mean a million things to different people Just like the word exercise, its an umbrella term for many different things.

Another thing to mention is, we make sure our immune systems are healthy and so we have to exercise and have diets that contribute to gaining the strength needed to engage in these practices.

[bushido_man96]

You have an interesting take on breakfast, Himokiri Karate...mine this morning was five eggs, a chicken breast, and some toast....

That aside, this is an interesting conversation to follow.

[Himokiri Karate]

You have an interesting take on breakfast, Himokiri Karate...mine this morning was five eggs, a chicken breast, and some toast....

That aside, this is an interesting conversation to follow.

My mom owns an all you can restaurant. I make the breads and I absolutely love and I mean LOVE the brown and multigrain breads. Its been 8 years and although we have pancakes and all kinds of pastries. I myself stick with brown/multi with butter and jam on my calorie counting days.

On my non-calorie days. I do a raw food fasting to clean the system. More so now than ever before since Korean Karate be it TSD/TKD is very dynamic and so I have to be feel light but also have the calories as well.

I just realized that our conversation went deep in to the mystic realm. My town has become a legit dystopian nightmare like series in Riki Oh. To come out of it unscathed, I meditate and meditate. Afterwards I meditate some more for sake of not losing my mind. Korean Karate + meditation and yoga is helping me big time. Hence the time in meditation has taken me in to the more deeper depths of these practices.