Grappler starting to look at Karate

[tatsujin]

Hi guys,

One last question, I keep on seeing a lot of Karate styles end with the word Ryu and some end with Kai, sometimes with the same name at the beginning, an example would be Wado-Ryu and Wado-Kai. Are these in essence the same style buy with a different emphasis due to the naming?

So, in Japanese, kai means an organization or group. So, I could have a kenkyukai (研究会) on any subject and it just means a study organization or a study group. In the case of Wado-kai ((和道会), this usually refers to the portion or group of the Japanese Karate Federation (JKF) that studies Wado-ryu...so a smaller group inside of another...and that brings us to "ryu"...

So, the ryu (流) of Wado-ryu (和道流). Ryu, today, generally refers to a school or style of martial arts. Prior to the 1800's, older koryu (or old school - 古流) generally had that in the name to reference a more generational idea. Meaning, the school or ryu-ha was passed down from person to person in a generational transmission. Very often, you will hear the kanji for wa (和) translated as "peace". But, that's not really "correct". Wa is more correctly translated as "harmony" and that is a very important concept in Japanese and to the Japanese. So, Wado-ryu is translated along the lines of "the school of the way of harmony". Or, "the harmony way school". Or, "the way of harmony school". All of those pretty much confer the same general thing.

You might also see "kan" too...Kan (館) means building generally. Shoto (松濤) is a pen name of Funakoshi Gichin and means waving pines. Combined with "kan" denotes the building.

And, while we are at it, let's make it a little more confusing...you may see "ha" used as well...

Ha (派) is translated a few ways, but generally means a faction or group (but not like the group above...LOL). Faction or sub-set (in English) can be a better translation. My own art has this kanji in the name. It is (in part) is Ryusei-ha Ryukyu Kempo (流星派琉球拳法). Ryusei means "dragon spirit". So, we are the "dragon spirit faction of ryukyu kempo". It is done this way because "ryukyu kempo" is a fairly generic term and also because there are a number of people that refer to their art as Ryukyu Kempo. So, the Ryusei-ha is used to differentiate ourselves from anyone else.

Does you head hurt yet? LOL!

Hope that is of some help to you.

[Grapplezilla]

Ok now it is clear to me, thanks for the explanation!

[Shojiko]

Hi Grapplezilla

I coincidentally are doing opposite of you, being as a Karateka, ventured into the grappling world (BJJ specifically).

*based on whats available around your area that you mentioned*

Both styles are pretty solid as long as you find the right DOJO.

Shotokan - very effective style, but mind you there are different styles or lineages of Shotokan that put emphasis on sport vs traditional (or vice versa), Some hard, some soft approaches to technique

Shotokan focuses on form, speed, *TIMING* and range. A typical class will consist of warm up, kihon (basics), Kata (forms), Kumite (matching/sparring/going live). Shotokan has DEEP stances...

Some dojos spar and some dont at all from my experience, but instead focus on set drills of attacks and countering using full speed (there are benefits to this method IMO and you can get caught pretty good if your not focusing). My class use to spar for 5 minute rounded then switch partners as you would in BJJ. But officiated matches (with ref) would just be point based, meaning, the ref would award a point on a single effective strike then reset. I think the art is quite effective in real world self defense, in a sense that, if someone were to attack you, the techniques are useful in stopping the attack totally (by KO) or get you some leverage to disarm the attacker enough to get out of the situation by running or getting to a safe distance.

Some dojos have good bunkai (applications to Kata) and some rarely know any applications to the kata and mostly focus on the perfection of form and kumite aspects. Okinawan Karate IMO is the go to for good bunkai breakdown

Kyokushin - I had a limited time in training this style, and know its more of a hard style similar to Muay Thai, but minus punches to the head. Stances are not as deep, Focuses on body conditioning and power as opposed to the Timing and distance aspect that Shoto focuses on. Forms (from basics to Kata) are similar, but at the same time "different" than shotokan. Kyokushin has a similar class format (kihon kata Kumite). Kyokushin kumite consist of trading shots to the body (allowing kicks to the head) while being timed or if someone went down.

Youll find less chance of a mcdojo with Kyokushin..

both of these styles have been adapted into MMA and used effectively so I will not say one is better than the other if you want to utilize in competition (MMA for example))

you will have to be proficient in the core aspects of each art as you go up in rank (Kihon Kata Kumite) more advanced katas as you go up each belt level

Karate will be less harder on your body than jits or similar grappling arts.

I will say, for the short time that I have been training BJJ, I have endured more aches and pains ALL OVER the body (especially joints) than all of my YEARS of training Karate. Karate will get you a few bruises, sometimes a good shiner, lip bleeds here and there, but overall, sparring is supposed to be with CONTROL. None of the aches or pains endured from Jiujitsu is debilitating to the point where Im not enjoying it. I love training JJ and continue going on a regular basis, you learn to deal with it after a while which Im sure your familiar with.

I think Karate and JJ are beautiful together in self defense for the real world.

Good luck on your training and keep us updated!

Edited January 22, 2022 by Shojiko

[Grapplezilla]

Great info, thanks for the viewpoint, especially that we are going through similar journeys just at the opposite end of the spectrum!

[Shojiko]

came across this YT clip of Bas Rutten and GSP highlighting differences between the 2

[Grapplezilla]

This is great, I have been watching a lot of Karate Combat, some really amazing matches.