Has THIS ever happened in the Karate community?

[tatsujin]

It's also a touch of dishonesty, which might make one think that this instructor gets his kicks by watching the students squirm. Lots of different ways something like this could go. I'm glad that something positive came out of it in the end.

RW, that sounds like a nightmare scenario you were tied to. What a terrible experience!

Well...

Life Lesson #1...Life is not fair and is full of dishonest people and situations...

Are the physical confrontations you find yourself in going to be "fair"?

With the exception of random acts of violence where you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time, physical confrontations very often have a precursor event the revolves more around the emotional or mental level. If you recognize or handle that well, you can often avoid the physical.

Additionally, situations in marriage, work and friendship are not always going to be "fair".

When you are approaching the black belt rank (yudansha - 有段者), it is important to know where someone's head is at. How do they cope with this "unfairness"? Do they just shut down? Do they turn inwards as opposed to outwards?

Lastly, this is a great way to identify and "speak" to those that are only interested in accumulating rank. Rank is like kata...especially in the Japanese/Okinawan realm of martial artists. They like to "collect" them and it is almost a game to see how many can get put into their pocket.

Your mileage, of course, may vary...

[bushido_man96]

As for life lesson #1, not being "fair" and full of dishonest people...yes, I know this. I've been around for a while. I work in law enforcement, and see it often.

The dojo or dojang should not be the place for it, though, in my opinion.

[tatsujin]

As for life lesson #1, not being "fair" and full of dishonest people...yes, I know this. I've been around for a while. I work in law enforcement, and see it often.

The dojo or dojang should not be the place for it, though, in my opinion.

NOTE: The use of "you" (in quotes) is a general use of the word and is not personally directed at the OP or anyone else...

 

So, suppose "you" have a student that has been taking instruction for a few months and they just aren't getting it. Not necessarily that they are not trying, but (for whatever reason), they just are not getting it (probably just are not getting it YET). If "you" have been an instructor for a while, you have had this happen before...depending on how long you have been teaching, it has probably happened several times. Anyway, this student asks as to how they are doing...do you be honest and tell them that they are the worst student at their current rank level and are not progressing at a level that you would expect? Or, are you a little dishonest in your response? Do "you" find a "polite" way to tell them that they have some work to do?

The dictionary defines dishonest as:

lack of honesty or integrity : disposition to defraud or deceive

If we are not telling them the entire truth or we find a way to express our answer to them that is more "polite", then by definition are we not being dishonest? After all, we are really not telling them the truth.

While I would certainly respect your right to have your opinion, I do not consider the dojo to be a "safe space". In reality, we are ALL technically "dishonest" with people. Sometimes it is done for the sake of conformity. Sometimes we do it to avoid conflict or potential conflict.

Much, if not most, of what anyone does is related to intent. A co-worker shows up with an absolutely horrible looking shirt. He says to you, "Hey man! Look at this great shirt I just got! Isn't it awesome?". You think it would be something found at a Goodwill store for .99 and it had been there for 6 years because no one would buy it. Would you tell him you thought it was the ugliest thing you had ever seen? Or would you say something along the lines of "Nice Bob! Enjoy!". He asked you what you thought. You told him something other than what you thought. You were dishonest, right? It doesn't matter that you aren't in a dojo. You could be in a dojo before or after a class, in a park under the trees or in the locker room changing after a shift. Dishonesty isn't something that applies to a physical location. But, what is the intent of the dishonesty?

My point to the students in the story I told had the correct intent. I put them into a mentally uncomfortable situation they [probably] were not experienced with. How would they respond? How should they respond? Based on this experience, how will they respond in the future?

Let me relate it a little differently....

The process of building muscle is called hypertrophy. This process works such that you have to put muscles under enough stress that damage is actually done to the muscle fibers. When you do, the body repairs these muscle fibers. The repair process makes them stronger and bigger to accommodate the stress that you are putting on them. If you wish to have the muscles to continue to grow and get bigger, then you have to increase the amount of stress that you are putting on them. If you do not stress them continually, they will not grow and adapt. Now, apply that basic concept to teaching combative arts. Just like you don't walk into a gym and start trying to bicep curl 200 pounds, you don't take a rank beginner and try to teach them jiyu kumite on the first day...or first week...first month...etc. We start the stress low and then continue to build on it. By the time the person is a brown belt and ready to be a black belt in the near future, the stress of the kumite is much, much higher. As their opponent, I am moving at speed or close to it. I am using power as well. I may not be trying to kill them literally, but if the "miss", it is gonna hurt...and the point is they know that. So stress is higher. What I was doing in the story I related was to induce mental stress. Nothing more, nothing less. I can take you to a gun range every day of the week. I can teach you how to clear your weapon from the holster. I can teach you how to move into a modified Weaver stance. I can teach you how to acquire sight alignment and how to acquire sight picture....etc. But, at some point you have to insert stressors into the training. If you don't, all of that training goes out the window the first time you have to go to guns in a combative situation. The stressors are the real mental aspect of the training. Students in combative arts training need mental training as much or more than the physical. At the end of the day, I would rather have a student that was only moderately competent in the physical execution of techniques but was fully mental competent in handling the stress that leads to the need of executing them.

But, of course, your mileage may vary...

I guess I won't tell the story of what happened when I was helping to teach a seminar that had a bunch of Shotokan guys in it and I questioned the qualifications of Funakoshi Gichin to teach combative skills...LOL...

[bushido_man96]

I suppose you can dress it up however you want. That old saying about "you can put lipstick on a pig..." In the end, you got what you wanted out of the situation. If the ends justify the means...

[LionsDen]

any school/gym/dojo that has to talk about loyalty to a style or to the school, or to them in particular probably isn't a great place to learn.

1. good instructors will inspire loyal students/customers just by being good at what they do.

2. its often a method to make it seem shameful to look at other schools/gyms/dojos to get a better understanding of yourself, and fighting

remember most schools are for profit businesses providing a service. the only thing you owe them is the money you pay for classes. if at any time you feel that service is not worth the money, you have no obligation to stick around. even if you find the service acceptable, you are under no obligation not to simultaneously cross train another style or completely different art some where else if another place/style/art catches your fancy and you can afford.

attempting to tell people they have to or need to be loyal to me is a sign that they doubt their own teaching ability, or that they doubt the efficacy of their own style/art.

[username19853]

Alright, quick story about how I think I’ve been somewhere similar.

So I used to go to this community boxing gym in my area. Not only was it free, but there were coaches there who actually wanted to teach you boxing. I thought this was perfect for the longest time.

Of course, there were some students there who grew up boxing or just had a natural talent for it. Depending on the crowd, I was one of those students. Other times, I was not.

Eventually, one of the coaches asked me if I’d be interested in sparring their star student because it would help me get better. So I of course did it! What I didn’t know, was that their star student had no intentions of having a friendly sparring match with me. He wanted to fight, and the coaches wanted to see how well he could do it. I didn’t receive any instruction, no tips, no communication from my sparring partner or the two coaches who stood by and watched the whole thing.

Now, I didn’t get a bloody nose or anything serious. But I realized that the coaches have their favorites, and if you’re not their favorite, they simply don’t care about you. If they saw some “true potential” in one student, they seemed to think they could take that one student to the top. Anybody else was only a tool to help that student get better.

Anyway, definitely not to the degree that you’re explaining in your post, but I think I’m guilty of this with my own students. Let me explain first!.

I have some students who always show up, who always try hard, who goof off a little bit because they’re having fun, but at the end of the day, they genuinely want to get better. I always make sure I give them enough attention. For lack of a better term, they’ve earned it! It has nothing to do with potential or athletic ability.

I even have a few students, who when they first came in, could not speak a single word to me or their coworker - they could only communicate through their parents. I always make sure these students feel heard, feel seen, feel welcomed, and that their efforts (no matter how big or small) are acknowledged and praised. Every single one of these students in mind, who have been coming for 2-3 months now, walk in with a big smile on their face. They give me an update on what’s going on outside of the dojo or they share a fun fact they learned at school. They even beat their parents to the door so they can say hi to me first.

Then I have students who don’t know why they’re there, who aren’t there to get better (just to have fun, nothing wrong with that), or who are only there because their parents put them there. Do I completely ignore these students? Of course not. But my ultimate job is to teach martial arts, so I prioritize that. If I have to spend X amount of time listening to Billy talk about his Minecraft routine because he can’t stop thinking about it when I’m supposed to be teaching the class how to do this drill for side kicks, then the students that are actually there to improve their side kicks are missing out on the little time we have together.