Don't call yourself sensei!

[KorroddyDude]

I'm of the mind that if you present a problem without proposing a solution, then it's nothing but pure Grade A whining.

In this thread, it's "don't call yourself sensei."  In another thread, I got into an almost week long back and forth with another member about the use of shogo titles.

Okay, so many people don't like any of those terms.  What's the solution?  Do we want karate to be more like BJJ, where the formalities are completely done away with?

If we want to keep the formalities, then 1) what titles should instructors have, and 2) how should new students be taught to address the instructors if it's pompous for the instructors to tell them?

We've some million dollar questions here that need to be answered.

[sensei8]

While I’ve never insisted that my students refer to me with anything but my first name, Bob. 

Nonetheless, we’re students of the MA, and for the most part, titles and its similar counterparts are of a certain culture that’s been around for quite some time. 

Whether we embrace them or not is or isn’t a choice, one way or another.

Of all things seemingly obscured, as the CI of my dojo, I am my students sensei, and with this being of fact, there’s no reason why I shouldn’t be addressed sensei.

It’s not of ego, it’s of a recognized culture that most MAists are very familiar with. Whether one insists or doesn’t insist to be referred to as sensei or any other known MA title is up to that individual and/or organization.

There’s a old saying that goes something like this…

If you don’t like it, then go somewhere else!! 

OR…

When in Rome, do as the Romans do!!

Either way, my dad always told us, don’t worry about what others do or don’t do, just worry about yourself. Funny how we worry about the things that are trivial and none of our business.

 

[Wastelander]

3 hours ago, KorroddyDude said:

I'm of the mind that if you present a problem without proposing a solution, then it's nothing but pure Grade A whining.

In this thread, it's "don't call yourself sensei."  In another thread, I got into an almost week long back and forth with another member about the use of shogo titles.

Okay, so many people don't like any of those terms.  What's the solution?  Do we want karate to be more like BJJ, where the formalities are completely done away with?

If we want to keep the formalities, then 1) what titles should instructors have, and 2) how should new students be taught to address the instructors if it's pompous for the instructors to tell them?

We've some million dollar questions here that need to be answered.

As I see it, the issue isn't with people having these titles, it's with HOW the titles are applies. There's nothing wrong with calling an instructor "Sensei." There is nothing wrong with people having Shogo (Renshi/Kyoshi/Hanshi). There is nothing wrong with people having Shihan licenses. The issue is when I introduce myself as "Sensei Noah," or "Shihan Noah," or have when people call me "Renshi Noah." I realize that the nuances of this are cultural, and so many of us will not have an inherent understanding of how to use the titles, but that just means there needs to be education.

"Sensei" and "Shihan" are both appropriate titles for someone to use to refer to someone who is their instructor, although only someone with a Shihan license can be called "Shihan," and they can still be called "Sensei," even if they have a Shihan license.

Shogo (Renshi/Kyoshi/Hanshi) are appropriate to use in writing, such as official organizational documents, or business cards, or event announcements. They are used like "PhD" or "MD" for doctors.

[KorroddyDude]

2 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

The issue is when I introduce myself as "Sensei Noah," or "Shihan Noah," or have when people call me "Renshi Noah."

Right, but the issue here is how students are supposed to know to use these titles if telling them what your titles are is such a big no-no.

[Wastelander]

1 hour ago, KorroddyDude said:

Right, but the issue here is how students are supposed to know to use these titles if telling them what your titles are is such a big no-no.

There is a difference between telling people what your titles are and referring to yourself by the titles. I don't tell people "I'm Sensei Noah," or "I'm Renshi Noah," I tell them that my name is Noah, but they can call me Sensei in the dojo, and I can tell them I hold a Renshi title if that is relevant.

[bushido_man96]

On 1/25/2025 at 9:27 AM, Spartacus Maximus said:

It is a little strange to bow to anyone outside of the context and environment of where one trains. Unless the gesture a normal thing to do in the surrounding culture.

Bowing is part of East Asian culture. If one lives and trains there under a native instructor  it wouldn’t be out of place or be strange. Anywhere else it would be quite odd and perhaps slightly cultish to many outsiders. 

Cultish, or an ego trip.

[KarateKen]

On 1/26/2025 at 4:42 AM, KorroddyDude said:

There are schools in my area that require this.  And not just bowing to instructors, whether in the dojo or out in public, but bowing to any black belt of higher rank.  No thanks to that.  I like having a life outside of martial arts.

Wow.  This is taking it too far imo. 

[DarthPenguin]

On 1/26/2025 at 12:42 PM, KorroddyDude said:

There are schools in my area that require this.  And not just bowing to instructors, whether in the dojo or out in public, but bowing to any black belt of higher rank.  No thanks to that.  I like having a life outside of martial arts.

Yeah i have come across places like that (trained in one that was close to it to). It reminds me of a grading panel when i was grading in a particularly strict style the GM who was examining asked me my views on loyalty and respect in martial arts (was meant to be informed by materials he produced) and i responded that to me loyalty meant (in this context) that whether or not i liked or had respect for the instructor as a person or individual was irrelevant and when they were instructing they should be treated with the respect that their position was due, as it was respect for the position even if not the individual. The other examiner (who i am friends with) was having to struggle to keep a straight face as it was pretty obvious that i meant the GM but i had been circumspect enough that he couldn't complain. (by way of some context the GM hated people cross training in other styles of martial arts, even if material he didn't cover such as grappling, and i had recently started to grapple. He was fishing to see how i would respond and gradually over time he got worth with his issues about me cross training and i ended up leaving!)