Is Tang Soo Do pretty much Karate?

[JazzKicker]

Luther, I'm surprised you ignored my first 2 paragraphs and took such issue with my brief comments about cultural differences. I can tell you have a different "basis" than mine- but mine goes waay back with instructors and grandmasters that were pioneers and originators. Prime source or 1rst generation, not 3rd generation. I don't know about "American TSD", I didn't even know that was a thing, but it seems to me if you're going to use Japanese terminology, to the OP's point, calling it karate would be consistent. it really doesn't matter much anyway!

When I started TSD 40 years ago, it was in a large, insular organization founded by one of Hwang Kee's early black belts (hint: Chuck Norris' first instructor in Korea). Technically it had a lot of commonalities with the Shito-Ryu I'd learned from a Japanese national from the 1950's university system, but the TSD training format was much more militaristic, formal etiquette. The TSD GM brought over quite a few masters from Korea, but they all left quickly after they became established in the US. The organization all but pretended the MDK didn't exist.

My perspective changed when I branched out to other styles, and, KMA related, trained in Hapkido with a Korean instructor, and his step-father was a founder (hint, he was in Game of Death). This was when I discovered a lot of what I'd been "indoctrinated" in was... not exactly accurate- and, I'll concede, appropriation is too strong a word, but perhaps... well meaning pretentiousness?

[Luther unleashed]

On 11/12/2024 at 8:34 AM, JazzKicker said:

Luther, I'm surprised you ignored my first 2 paragraphs and took such issue with my brief comments about cultural differences. I can tell you have a different "basis" than mine- but mine goes waay back with instructors and grandmasters that were pioneers and originators. Prime source or 1rst generation, not 3rd generation. I don't know about "American TSD", I didn't even know that was a thing, but it seems to me if you're going to use Japanese terminology, to the OP's point, calling it karate would be consistent. it really doesn't matter much anyway!

When I started TSD 40 years ago, it was in a large, insular organization founded by one of Hwang Kee's early black belts (hint: Chuck Norris' first instructor in Korea). Technically it had a lot of commonalities with the Shito-Ryu I'd learned from a Japanese national from the 1950's university system, but the TSD training format was much more militaristic, formal etiquette. The TSD GM brought over quite a few masters from Korea, but they all left quickly after they became established in the US. The organization all but pretended the MDK didn't exist.

My perspective changed when I branched out to other styles, and, KMA related, trained in Hapkido with a Korean instructor, and his step-father was a founder (hint, he was in Game of Death). This was when I discovered a lot of what I'd been "indoctrinated" in was... not exactly accurate- and, I'll concede, appropriation is too strong a word, but perhaps... well meaning pretentiousness?

I tend to make very long posts, and it’s very difficult for me not to. Me, ignoring the first part wasn’t really ignoring at all. It’s just that for the most part I agreed with you. I did take great issue with the cultural appropriation comment. It is a word that is being used so often today and it really bothers me. I didn’t care for your entire tone about Americans, using karate, using the terminology or any of it really.
 

I don’t think I’m as biased as one would think. For one thing I’m also a first-degree black belt in traditional TSD MDK.  I also started out in my early years in tae kwon do, and American kickboxing, which back in the day was basically boxing with your hands while using all of the traditional style kicking.  I have been extremely and heavily influenced by Bruce Lee and is open-mindedness. American TSD really fits the formula for what makes me happy because the concept is really TSD as a foundation, and adding all types of martial arts on top of it which, in essence creates a new martial arts chore, but it’s always evolving.  This is why I have grown to love the American version more and teach it exclusively.  I’m only saying this to establish the idea that I choose the platform and to get across the understanding that when we’re talking about being biased, it is not the only thing I have been exposed to.
 

I don’t have a problem with any comment in this entire thread. I simply disagree and I can do that respectfully I just don’t like your overall tone about Americans and their use of the art or karate in general, especially the part about cultural appropriation.  I’m perfectly fine your belief system. Is that what you do makes more sense or whatever it is and I’m even OK you don’t like anything about American martial arts or American karate or American TSD. I respect your opinion. I’m quite used to it, because the fighting that goes on amongst the traditional practitioner is quite the norm and I have said it many times throughout this forum and in conversations. I believe this is what makes mixed martial arts so far superior to traditional martial arts. Additional martial arts cares, much more about following the tradition in the singular method rather than results. They are more worried about fighting with the next person about what is correct but when you have a mixed martial artist or a kickboxer or something of that nature, they don’t care about that they care about results and if somebody’s doing something technically incorrect, but they get the results there’s no fuss. I understand my surroundings, and I understand that we are divided and when I say we I just mean martial artists and even people in this forum are divided as we reside amongst groups that have certain belief systems in martial arts. I just don’t like when people start putting down people and that’s what it felt like to me so I apologize if I came off  bitchy but we live in a time where I hear that type of talk all the time in general and I just don’t care for it that’s all. 

Edited November 13 by Luther unleashed