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[Shojiko]

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Edited September 26, 2020 by Shojiko

[wildbourgman]

This is funny because I am a Shodan in JKA Shotokan (my first style) and a 2nd Kyu in Shorin Ryu my current style.

I would possibly ask you how do you believe that Okinawan martial arts are specialist? I see it very differently.

In my time with Shotokan we learned striking mostly at distance.

In my time in Shorin Ryu we train striking at multiple distances, grappling, throws, and kobudo with multiple weapons, as will as grappling with those weapons. I've heard Okinawan martial arts described as the original MMA. Our syllabus is actually too varied for the average hobbyist practitioner its certainly not specialized.

[Shojiko]

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Edited September 26, 2020 by Shojiko

[wildbourgman]

I understand now and I agree.

I do see that more Shotokan practitioners are looking for the answers probably because they were not able to mature in a sport driven style especially as older adults. The popularity in instructors like Ian Abernethy and to a lesser extent Steve Ubl show this, as well as the Japanese JKA instructors openly cross training in Okinawa and China.

Most of my training in Shotokan was under instructors that were still active competitors in Sport Karate at a very high level and I think that has a lot to do with the type of training they give students.

Also the direct lineage could have an affect on ones Shotokan practice. For instance, three contemporaries Kanazawa, Takayuki Mikami and Tetsuhiko Asai all had similar beginnings and were fierce competitors but only one of them had continued on a more narrow competition based direction. Depending on which one you came from could certainly affect ones outlook. In saying that all three men seemed to teach a style that depended on timing, speed and general athleticism all of which wain as you grow old.

That is why I'm very satisfied with my move to Shorin Ryu but I certainly appreciate the power, discipline and skill that it takes to be a serious Shotokan karateka.

[Wado Heretic]

Maturity in martial arts is a life-long process. Where you are, and the observations you have made, speak to the first phase of taking ownership of one's own martial education: realising what direction you wish to take your martial arts. Reviewing what you know with a critical eye, and reflecting on what you wish to know.

Ultimately, there are only two paths in Karate: the Sincere path and the Confused path. Knowing why you are training in karate and having confidence in what you have studied to guide you towards your training goals. Striving for your path to be true to what you claim and to what you want. In contrast, there can be very confusing training: a failure for training to be holistic, and deeply entwined, where the training methods are disparate and teach disparate skills. Similarly, such training can claim to be effective at promoting health and well-being, effective for self-defence skills, but also minded towards competition success. Yet, all of these successes demand different types of training and skill development.

Good and mature Karate is sincere. Bad and immature karate is confused at best, or insincere and deceptive at worst.

Even a varied syllabus, so long as the goal remains effective self-defence, and the methods reference each other is a focused system. This is the beauty of Shorin-Ryu and why it remains my focus: The kata need little change for the movements to be adapted to self-defence. The mechanics of the basics lend themselves to adaptability and flexibility. I have never struggled to apply Shorin-Ryu to the concepts of self-defence.

I trained alongside Shotokan, but it was when I was at university doing my Master's Degree, so I was only there for nine months. The instructor kindly let me join in, and just let me do my Shorin-Ryu kata, as long as I did everything else by the Shotokan book. On reflection, the training was good but would call it rather disconnected. In the sense that there was little connection between Kata and Kumite: the Kumite seemed grounded in the basics, with little reference to Kata movement. Yet, the Yakusoku Kumite never really practised Jiyu Kumite tactics either. I almost felt like we ere training for three different disciplines under the same name.

I had a similar experience doing Wado-Ryu, which I trained into Shodan level, before transitioning to Shorin-Ryu along with my instructor. My instructor and the organisation were very much focused on Bunkai, as well as the traditional Kihon Kumite of Wado-Ryu, and I generally found the way the movements in Kata were performed did not lend themselves to applications. Similarly, Kihon Kumite taught certain ways to attack and defend, which were disimilar to how applications were done. We also did Sundome Jiyu-Kumite, and it lacked coherence with the fighting tactics of either Kumite or Bunkai.

With hindsight, the application disconnect is why I embraced the Shorin-Ryu Kata. However, I have also come to reflect on the kihon kumite as a resource for principles, methods of moving, and ultimately something that introduces the spirit of attack and defence and repetition of motion sometimes lost when one embraces Bunkai whole heartedly as the lone type of partner work.

Thus, I think, maturity comes from recognising the need for coherent training, but also taking ownership of your goals as a martial artist.

[sensei8]

Imho...

There are two different types of maturity in the MA.

One is the maturing of tenure. One matures in this regard through ones own time spent on the floor by training hard and training well. Over time, the practitioner matures through familiarity. Sort of like when someone says that they know something like the back of their hand.

The other is maturing in techniques. Shu Ha Ri always changes as we mature in techniques. In short, maturing in technique is what Bruce Lee said...

"I do not hit, it hits all by itself."

That to me is maturing in technique. Thinking about 'it', clouds the mind; can;t think straight at all, Being afraid of 'it', defeats the practitioner before it can be given a chance. All of this robs the practitioner of consistent effectiveness.

Mizu No Kokoro = Mind like the moon

Tsuki No Kokoro = Mind like the water

Some practitioners never mature in their techniques.

[Shojiko]

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Edited September 26, 2020 by Shojiko

[bushido_man96]

I would say that your training is always maturing. But, it sounds to me like you've experienced a few different things, and have now found the thing that fills a training void for you. So yes, I would say it is maturing.

But don't stop seeking and maturing....