Kensai Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 This may seem like a strange title. However I was just looking on the net and I saw this quote: "But I may state this. Judo and Aikido are no match against Karate. This I wish to say at the least." Trust me, this is not a Kensai rant about how wrong this statement is, people can believe what they want. But who do you think said it? It sort of smells like an inexperienced 14 year old, thats trying to troll on some chat form. But to my horror is was in fact the great Mas Oyama! We always go on about putting down other style and how bad it is. But when "great" men say these sort of comments what are us mere mortals supposed to think. As they are supposed to light the way foward. I am not trying to get a Oyama Sensei slagging match going. As that would be wrong because I consider him still to be a GREAT KARATEKA. This is also not a Judo/Aikido vs Karate debate. Just wondered what you people thought? Yours in Aiki.
Tombstone Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 everyone has an opinion, no matter who they are.
Kyle-san Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 It's a mistake to call anyone "great" or elevate them to a higher status just because they've made a few achievements. No matter what they've done these people are still human and are entitled to human opinons and reactions. Frankly, I'm not surprised Oyama thinks this. What really bugs me is the implication that any of these Sensei's are better people than the rest of us because they're talented martial artists and teachers. Thinking like that is just setting yourself up for disapointment.
ZeRo Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 everyone has an opinion, no matter who they are. i agree
jmd161 Posted January 11, 2003 Posted January 11, 2003 everyone has an opinion, no matter who they are. i agree Same here can't really say anything about that except i disagree ,but he's intitled to his opinion. jmd The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics.
yoriki816 Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 Kensai, I can admit that I was a bit taken aback by the fact that such a quote was attributed to Oyama Sensei, but one has to keep in mind that great martial arts prowess and great skill as a teacher does not a great man make. In fact such ability, success and some level of public regognition can do just the opposite. In many cases it can foster an I'm better than the huddled masses and my "technique/ approach to the art is better than anything else" type of attitude. I think the popularity of the UFC and other "mixed martial arts" venues have contributed to that in our day and age as well. Martial artists, even instructors can suffer from egomania just as easily as the rank and file. In fact I have heard stories about Takeda Sensei who's intruction of Ueshiba laid the ground work for Aikido that would lead one to believe that he was a paranoid, violent, and mean spirited man. Does that mean I cannot respect his skill or the contributions he made to the martial art that has changed my life? Not at all. I'll close by saying this, I always respected the skill level of our Grandmaster from the demonstrations I have seen and the stories I had heard told by senior instructors in our art. But one story gave me reason to respect the man more than the skill. My Sensei told of a time during a trip to the home dojo in Japan, when he was late for workout because unexpected delays in taking care of other duties assigned to visiting students. Sensei after arriving late, went into a formal ceremony complete with bowing to Grandmaster Mochizuki who was observing the practice, having reached such an age where he can no longer take a very active role in class. It should be noted that senior Japanese instructor had been observed just bowing at the edge of the mat when arriving late and immediately joining in with the rest of the class. But when Master Mochizuki sees this gaijin instructor doing formal ceremony to begin practice, gets up from his seat, assumes seiza and bows him in. This show of mutual respect from the very head of the system shows more about his character as a martial artist than any of the incredible displays of technique I had ever scene. It makes me proud to be a student of his art. and that's my two cents Matt GilliardShodan- Yoseikan AikidoShodan- Goshin Jujitsu
Freestyler Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 Kensai, what if his statement is correct ? The paradigms people hold are very different, and in his paradigm, karate probably fulfills it - which is why he trained in it, while aikido and judo do not fulfill it.
Karateka_latino Posted January 12, 2003 Posted January 12, 2003 He fought many people while he was alive.. he even defeated the Judo Great Kimura, the same man who defeated Helio Gracie. Maybe he felt his Karate was best because he beat masters of those styles. Several of them.
Kensai Posted January 12, 2003 Author Posted January 12, 2003 Nice to see some varied opinions. Everyone is ofcourse intitled to say what they want. I could not agree more. It always a matter of perspective. On the one hand, you have a martial arts legend, that from perivous quotes has said that style vs style means nothing. Yet Oyama Sensei says something like this. Is he right......? I cant speak for Judo, however O Sensei smashed a far few Karateka in his time. If then he made a simlar comment, would I respect him less? I dont think I would. A style is as unique as the person. Some people will always be able to use certain styles better than others. We all know that even the legends are only Human. But do you think they have a responcablity to make their students open minded or false belief in one superior style? Submission, he never actually fought Kimura, Kimura refused to fight him when he did push ups of his whole body on 3 fingers. Does this make karate better? Mike Tyson refused to get on the mat with Shioda Sensei, does this make Aikido better than boxing. I think the point I am trying to make is that we ALL have a perspective. What is better for us. Karate was better for Oyama, Judo for Kano and Aikido for Ueshiba. Who is right? All of them and none.
Karateka_latino Posted January 13, 2003 Posted January 13, 2003 Oh well... about that Kimura/Oyama thing.. Then Oyama DID beat Kimura with his brain...lol Scared him away without having to physically fight him..The highest skill of the martial artist. Thanks for the info Now i know how Oyama really won that match..lol P.S. Also Shioda beat Tyson. lol
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