Pacificshore Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Unfortunately for those who have no background in martial arts, and is just starting out, if they run into one of those self promoted BB, then they'll never know any different. Now would these first time students learn something from the self promoted BB? Well I think so, unless they absolutely SUCK, that even the beginner should be able to recognize. The students should be able to learn up to point of where the self promoted BB had originally stopped his/her training. That's why it's important to do your homework on any perspective style you are looking to study. Di'DaDeeeee!!!Mind of Mencia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NidanWarrior Posted January 9, 2003 Author Share Posted January 9, 2003 That's right. Good call Pacificshore! NidanWarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnifinite Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I think I'd be all for letting natural selection weed out the frauds, except for one thing. Someone who knows nothing about martial arts is going to go to them to learn self-defense, get crappy information and a false sense of confidence, and possibly get really hurt when they use what they've learned instead of maybe just running like they would have without it. Again, I guess that would be another sort of natural selection, but it could be someone without the life experience to know anything about real combat beyond kung fu movies. And I guess it mainly bothers me because it brings down the credibility of the martial arts world as a whole... if there weren't so many frauds out there selling (and competing using) fake Karate or whatever some of the MMA people might not disregard the older styles so readily. 1st Dan HapkidoColored belts in Kempo and Jujitsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR440 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I sure as hell don't think anyone of lower rank should deserve a higher belt if they beat someone of higher rank in the ring. I have a few friends in the special forces that would break people in half if you hung a six pack of cheap beer around the opponents neck. So then they would be considered martial art experts? No, just thirsty. Belt ranking is simply a means to identify the progress within a system. If it's phoney, who cares? It's happy hour somewhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyros Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I sure as hell don't think anyone of lower rank should deserve a higher belt if they beat someone of higher rank in the ring. Exactly. A belt rank means one is proficient in all the techniques required for that rank in that particular system. If a Hapkido blackbelt beats up a BJJ blackbelt in a ring, no way is he supposed to get a black belt in BJJ just for that. And vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 This is why you first questions for a new teacher should be... 1. Can I see your certificates? 2. If not who taught you and can you tell me about him? If either question is met with a well or uuuhhh then you know you got a McDojo teacher. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taebot Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 (edited) "Let's look at it from another perspective. Look at it from inside your own organization. Say one person gets a black belt, goes out on his/her own and opens a school while you continue to train at the main school. After about two years the first person, who left to start a school, is sudenly no longer associated with the main school and is now say a 3rd or fourth degree. Myself, I don't care. But don't you think there is a slight loss of RESPECT for that person." Nidan Warrior On what grounds? That they took a risk and you didn't? That they had to prove themselves each and every single day to a MUCH higher standard than you were held? Think of it in terms of the workplace. Do those lacking in initiative get raises and promotions (outside of the US Government , of course)? Perhaps there should be a touch of admiration for that one person realizing they were special enough to advance the arts. One might even suggest shame on the head instructor of the school for not being able to retain an obviously valuable asset. In your previous comments you spoke of those ONLY a first degree. Since you know of whom we speak would it be somewhat safe to say that there is a wide range of capabilities of black belts, say in the range of from Bushidokan to TKD Even at your school ! Mine too! After all, good 'ol Bob Thurman is like an orange belt... Pacificshore, one can learn a lot from an idiot! They won't be around long, and yes, there will be some, small amount of damage done. It is the price one pays for a system elastic enough to allow for change and creativity. Unless of course you are a historical preservation society which I believe some styles have allowed themselves to become. And yes, the person who fails to do their homework is also negligent in this case. omnifinite - you make a basic assumption that is incorrect, inasmuch as these few incapables are going to cause a great harm, i.e., that there is going to be any real number of times this happens. Outside of school, the military, and work, I, and most credible martial artists never have call to defend themselves. Hence, a small fraction of a very small segment of less than 2% (in the US) of the population which practices martial arts would fall victim to this dual injustice. You guys should get together and patrol restaurants and weed out the ones who might accidently poison someone . It's the same thing... ! (And by ALL means, avoid McDonalds and ONLY support establishments that offer HOME-STYLE cooking! ) Edited January 10, 2003 by taebot "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taebot Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Legend has it that the samuri killed by the then 13-year old Musashi was patiently trying to demonstrate why the little one should not start his own ryu ! Have a great day! Day five and I'm having fun now! "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taebot Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Forgive me for flagellating a deceased equine but... ALL soldiers kinda green first time they see battle. SOME turn and run. One or two gonna win the medal of honor. Everyone else is going to die or survive based on their own nature and sheer luck or fate as one would have it. I'll try to shut up now... "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR440 Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 What the .....? It's happy hour somewhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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