Hapkido groundfighting

[Pyros]

I hear it often: hapkido has it all. When I ask what exactly, I get the usual list of punches, kicks, locks, throws, etc. Often this list also includes ground fighting. Could someone elaborate on this? Do they actually go to the matt and start free fighting? Do they teach "the guard", how to "pass" it, etc.? Or is the ground fighting just the submission holds from the take downs?

 

Please inform the ignorant!

[SBN Doug]

I can only speak from Kuk Sool Won, which similarly claims to have "ground fighting" incorporated. It is not ground fighting as BJJ knows it, by any means. It's more applying joint/pressure point attacks from different angles on the ground. Also, using the same principles to escape holds, and sometime counter them.

 

Would I feel confident against a trained ground fighter? Not really.

 

Do I feel confident against an average fighter that was somehow able to get me to the ground? (must have been a sneak attack ) Yes.

[Pyros]

Yeah, I supposed that was the case at least in some cases. Of course it depends on the instructor, some are incorporating BJJ and similar stuff to theirs as a marketing tactic. Which is fine if it is done by bringing in a certified instructor, but I hate it when the instructor goes to a couple of BJJ seminars (or even stars training in a club for what it's worth) and then starts to add the techniques he learns to his own classes. He has no right or skill to teach those techniques! That sucks!

[SBN Doug]

Again, I practice KSW, not Hapkido. I have no idea the extent of their groundfighting.

 

Our system is tightly regulated by the Grandmaster. So, there is nothing thrown in by individual instructors.

[Heckler83]

Hapkido DOES teach good ground fighting techniques, however it is not anywhere near as complete as, say, gracie jiujitsu or the such. It's still more than adequate for anything involving self defense, and ive found that jiujitsu is readily useable in hapkido groundfighting situations. Long story short-yes it does teach ground fighting, and any jiujitsu or werstling knowledge you can get can be thrown in without any modifications. You see a move in jiujitsu you like, like on UFC, you can practice it in the Do Jung. The do jung I go to has an instructor that was a jiujitsu blackbelt though, and a russian sambo judo blackbelt, so it kind of depends on the school's instructors.

[craknek]

Hapkido does in a way have it all... a lil bit of everything.

 

I was reading about Combat Hapkido and about how it is different then Trad Hapkido.

 

Combat Hapkido pretty much removed all the high kicks and showman Flashy kicks that arent useful in practical situations. Combat Hapkido is not for sport, it is a 100% no non-sense self-defense Martial Art which teaches you how to really take down someone. In reading about combat Hapkido, Grandmaster Pellegrini added a 'Complete' Ground grappling system. Is this ground system as complete as BJJ or JJ, probably not, since that is what JJ focuses on. Is it complete enough to take on other martial arts in ground grappling, I would have to assume yes.

 

Nick D.

[Chris from CT]

I was reading about Combat Hapkido and about how it is different then Trad Hapkido.

 

Combat Hapkido pretty much removed all the high kicks and showman Flashy kicks that arent useful in practical situations. Combat Hapkido is not for sport, it is a 100% no non-sense self-defense Martial Art which teaches you how to really take down someone. In reading about combat Hapkido, Grandmaster Pellegrini added a 'Complete' Ground grappling system. Is this ground system as complete as BJJ or JJ, probably not, since that is what JJ focuses on. Is it complete enough to take on other martial arts in ground grappling, I would have to assume yes.

 

Nick D.

 

Hi.

 

I study Hapkido and there are different styles of Hapkido. There have been posts here on KarateForums that discussed the high flashy kicks and where they came from.

 

The abridged version...

 

Depending on who you concider the founder of Hapkido (Choi, Yong-Sul or Ji, Han-Jae) the high flashy kicks came from the students of Choi, Yong-Sul which would include Ji, Han-Jae.

 

So, if you concider Dojunim Choi as the founder, then the "high flashy kicks" are not from traditional Hapkido.

 

Another point that should be mentioned is that probably 98% of Hapkido practitioners with tell you that Hapkido was never "Sport." Don't let anyone fool you otherwise.

 

One thing that marks Hapkido is how effective your technique is without a "fake, "distraction" or hitting the opponent. The use of body manipulation and off-balancing were essential to Choi, Yong-Sul's Hapkido. If you watch any of his student's that are alive today (Ji, Han-Jae, Lim-Hyun Soo, Chinil Chang, etc.) you can tell the technique is key and they make the most out of it. They aren't overly strong, but even a strong person resisting has little chance of stopping the oncoming technique because they are using natural laws that apply to anyone with two arms, two legs and head on top.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like to smack people around just as much as others, but if the majority of a person's techniques rely on a strike or "fake" on a resisting person then I would wonder about the depth of a person's Hapkido.

 

As far as ground work, there is some, but as Doug and Heckler83 said, it's not as in-depth as a BJJ fighter's. Niether lineage of Choi, Yong-Sul's or Ji, Han-Jae's had much back in the day. It was added afterwards. Once again that depends on the teacher whether there is a lot of ground work or not.

 

Take care.

[Hpkid0ist]

As my first Hapkido teacher told me. We do standing up what ground fighters do on the ground. If you understand your techniques and are competent in them then you can use most of them on the ground. On top of that we use pressure points and vital points to a high degree whether standing or on the ground. We learn to survive on the ground. For us there are no locks, traps, or tapping techniques, they are all breaking and choke outs. As far as how well would we fair against a ground specialist, well that depends on the skill of the fighter and their luck. On top of that we work on counters and reversals to takedowns. We are not helpless on the ground by far.

[dropshadow]

remember where hapkido comes from: hapkido shares a common ancestry with aikido, jujitsu and judo: aiki-jujitsu. the fact that these various disciplines brached off is probably more due to philosophy than anything. judo is the sport version of jujitsu. aikido is considered a peaceful and harmonious art that stresses defense and not hurting the attacker above all else. and then you have jujitsu and hapkido, both of which are unashamedly combat martial arts.

 

in my opinion, hapkido can be considered a combat martial art because it involves the 4 ranges of combat (some argue there are 3, some say 5). hapkido has a very large reportoire of effective kicks at kicking range, good strikes and hand skills for the punching range, and many locks, breaks, and holds for both the grappling and ground range. although not as complete as jujitsu, the common ancestry shared between the martial arts gives both a good ground game. although hapkido is second to jujitsu on the ground, one could probably easily argue that standing up, jujitsu is easily secondary to hapkido's vast arrays of kicks and strikes, because jujitsu's realm is the ground.

 

also realize that many of hapkido's techniques (such as throws, locks, etc.) are meant to be lethal or disable a person TO THE GROUND in order to gain control. if a hapkidoist has an opponent controlled and on the ground, there is very little an opponent would be able to do against an advanced hapkidoist. while often the jujitsu practitioner will sometimes train for submission, the hapkidoist almost always trains for disabling an opponent quickly in order to gain control of the situation. the further use of pressure points is evidence that hapkido in its advanced form is meant as a lethal combat martial art.

 

lastly, hapkido is still evolving as a martial art. like many arts, different masters are adding their perspective on their hapkido curriculum. it is not uncommon today (especially with the popularity of MMA and grappling arts) for the hapkido practitioner to encounter ground and grappling techniques in his training. while it may not be as complete as someone in BJJ, you learn the techniques the others will use against you and learn to protect yourself from the take-down and shoot, and when on the ground, learn enough techniques to hopefully get you into a better position and back on your feet.