Karate in streets

[RW]

If you watch UFC you see a lot of stance work that comes from karate backgrounds.

Where can I read more about this or see some videos?

[LastKing]

I think it is and it isn't. If you're in a car park with an assailent who gives you time and space to manoeuvre and compose yourself, and is angry but probably doesn't know much about fighting, then yes, it can be effective. You could probably block and hit to the solar plexus and walk away. But If you're in a crowded bar and someone whose used to street fighting takes exception to you and drops one on you before you even know you're in a fight, then no.

Most street fights don't run b y any rules, and unfortunately, karate, and most MAs run by too many. The prime one is that we always start a fight a comfortable distance away with our hands up and our stance correct, and at the nod of an instructor. In the real world, it happens in places which are crowded with people or things, and the guy who decks does it from close distance with a right hook you never see coming. And that spinning back kick you pride yourself on, the one you've spent years mastering, if you even get to use it will most likely break your girlfriend's nose because she moves the wrong way at the time you threw it, or end up in you breaking your own ankle on a post or the side of the bar.

Granted, the more you spar, the less likely you'll be to freeze, but we wire our brains only to be combative in our practised situation, and that tends to be a gym with generally nice people.

As for Shotokan specifically, I'd say it's one of the least practical styles of martial art. Personally, I'd say boxing is the closest you'd get to a self defence MA, simply because, in theory, you're in peak physical condition and you're expert in a handful of punches and some pretty effective defence.

Just my own opinion.

[OneKickWonder]

But If you're in a crowded bar and someone whose used to street fighting takes exception to you and drops one on you before you even know you're in a fight, then no.

True. But the same applies to absolutely any fighting system. Even a battle hardened soldier is just a human being if he is caught completely off guard.

But for me, if I were to pick one single thing that martial arts has done for me I'm terms of self defence ability, it would be that it develops awareness. Every style I've been involved with has free sparring. Sure there are rules and it's nothing like a real fight because of those rules, and because your opponent is your training partner and friend. But as several pairs of people are sparring in the same hall at the same time, you develop good awareness of your surroundings. You have to. If you don't, you end up getting kicked by someone that wasn't even aiming for you because you've backed right into someone else as they were about to kick their opponent.

But even if one lands on you out of the blue. Another thing we develop as martial artists is sensitivity. The ability to feel the impact instantly and kind of subconsciously know it's trajectory and source and how to roll with it I guess.

Of course none of this is meant to suggest that the martial artist is infallible. Of course not. But it does count for something.

[LastKing]

I think the thing is, as martial artists we tend to exist in a civilised world populated by civilised people who follow set patterns of engagement. Unless you're a bouncer or a policeman we have an internal gate which is pretty much shut until we assume a fighting stance, and even then, when it's open, our rules involve distance and timing and a certain reciprical respect.

In the real world street fighters for want of a better world have a set of rules which do not follow any of ours. If the real world were to be carried into the dojo, the fight would start while we were tying on our belts, or up at the urinal taking a leak, or half in, half out of our car ten minutes before the session started. And even if it were face to face in the centre of the dojo, they'd put there face in yours and baffle you with some question you don't expect ("Are you that guy who was in here last Tuesday, the one with the brother with the red hair?", and while you were in that mind gulf where you're trying to figure out what he just said, he lands you with a punch you don't see coming because he's so close and his hands are out of your field of view.

To paraphrase a guy called Mick Coup (check him on Youtube), there's never enough time and never enough space.

But you're right, we do learn sensitivity, and we are more primed than people who don't train MA to take a punch and react. Martial arts do count for something. They put us in a better position, but I think it's wrong to assume that because we know a lot of complicated technique (Shotokan esp), we are competent at defending ourselves. After all, how many professionals who have to deal with violence or the threat of violence use any of the complicated martial arts techniques we train?

Which again, is not to say your point isn't right. It is better to have some training, and it will carry you through up to a point, but to assume a prescribed style alone (Shotokan esp) is any real use is a ride to a hiding.