Goju ryu characteristics

[P.A.L]

Hi all.

Some of you may know from my other posts that I'm looking to move on from my current style of tang soo do.

I'm considering a number of options. One is shotokan, which basically is what tang soo do tries to plagiarise so going to shotokan should give me some hint of the truth behind TSD.

Another option is goju ryu.

I initially turned my nose up at goju ryu, on the basis that apparently that's Mr Miyagi's style, and I was annoyed when I found out, something like 30 years after The Karate Kid, that Mr Miyagi actually had no Karate. But shattered illusions aside, people tell me goju ryu is a very credible style.

What can folks tell me about it? What are some of its unique characteristics? What sets it apart from TSD or shotokan?

I don't know how long you have been practicing TSD but I can tell you that I have seen at least three guys from off-shoots of Japanese/Korean Shuri-te in our Okinawan Goju dojo who couldn't adapt and left. the major difference is distancing, it is much closer than any shuri-te style even closer than Matsumura Seito shorin ryu. then comes the blocking/receiving , in shuri-te your block is your attack in Goju the block is just a sticky hand receiving while you cutting the distance short to do you open hand/finger techniques or your short elbow strikes. goju kicks are low like any other okinawan karate from waist down. We have the front kick and the low side kick.

the biggest misunderstanding in Goju is Sanchin Kata. if you come in peace with Sanchin, your life in Goju-ryu would be much easier.

I moved from Shotokan to Kobayashi-Shorin-ryu to Okinawan Goju-ryu and in each move my karate became smaller. I dropped the Shotokan all together but I still practice Shorin-ryu.

if you are interested in goju ryu look into the Okinawan masters like Hokama and Masaji or Higaonna.

http://

[Wastelander]

Your TSD background is going to be easier to adapt to Shotokan or a Shorin-Ryu system. Goju-Ryu will be very much like starting over. As for characteristics of Goju-Ryu, I would say it tends to be heavy and sticky. These are components of Shorin-Ryu, as well, but not to the same degree that they are present in Goju-Ryu. It is plenty credible, although as with most Okinawan karate styles, it has a bit of a muddled history, in places, and political in-fighting that caused a good amount of "no, MY sensei was the true inheritor of Goju-Ryu." Even so, every branch of Goju-Ryu has good material stemming from Miyagi Chojun and Higashionna Kanryo.

As has been mentioned, of course, every dojo is going to teach things differently. In general, though, if you want to carry over your TSD training, and just make some small tweaks and keep going, Shotokan is probably the better bet. If you want to "empty your cup," so to speak, and start fresh, Goju-Ryu would be the way to go since, if nothing else, you will have to learn entirely new kata, which will help you adapt to the different mechanics and methods.

In addition to P.A.L.'s recommendations for Goju-Ryu references, I would add Kuba Yoshio Sensei, and Paul Enfield Sensei. Enfield was a senior student of Higaonna Morio, and acted as his uke and narrator for his instructional videos, before transitioning to the Jundokan and becoming a senior student and translator for Taira Masaji. His take on Goju-Ryu is something like a blend of the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIW3xOBdMI

[OneKickWonder]

Thanks all.

To clarify a couple of points though, TSD is my current main style but it's not my only style or first style. I also have experience of Chinese kung fu, as well as wado and aikido.

I'm not necessarily looking to replace TSD with a carbon copy. TSD has taught me a lot. I'll be keeping what I learned, and bagging it up with all the stuff I've learned in other styles. But what I want now is more knowledge. Either more refinement of what I have, or more new stuff, which in my experience amounts to the same thing if you keep an open mind, it's just that different styles places the emphasis on different principles, but I think they're all in there.

[JR 137]

The Karate Kid took the name Miyagi from the founder of Goju

Ryu

Gichin Funkoshi created Shotokan from many years of study in both Goju Ryu and Shoin Ryu.

Goju Ryu is a very hard style. They do a lot of body conditioning type of exercises and techniques from my understanding.

As a Shotokan guy I always tell my students that Funkoshi took the hard from Goju Ryu and th soft from Shoin Ryu. Along with many other things from Master Kano and Judo

I have not done any TSD but I have heard the comparison to Shotokan. With all do respect I have not seen it. (Other than a copy of the kata) Some of the Mcdojo Shotokan guys maybe. I am FSKA by way of JKA Shotokan and we take great pride in our power and explosion vs other styles. That combo comes to us though the yin and yang of Goju and Shoin Ryu IMO

Just a point or order, so to speak...

Funakoshi did not study Goju Ryu. Goju Ryu and Shotokan as we know them were being at pretty much the same time. Chōjun Miyagi and Gichen Funakoshi were contemporaries and didn’t have any teachers in common that I’m aware of.

Funakoshi developed Shotokan from Shorei Ryu and Shorin Ryu. Miyagi developed Goju Ryu from Naha-Te and furthered it from what he learned in China.

I'm definitely not an expert on Shotokan but I seem to remember that I read his teachers were Itosu and Azato. Both were students of Matsumura and thus would fall into the Shorin Ryu classification.

PS - Shorei Ryu is the classification that Goju Ryu is in along with other Nafaadi (Naha-Te) arts.

I have no idea if Funakoshi studied Goju-Ryu but if I had to guess at a class of Ti (Te) outside of Suidi (Shuri-Te) I would guess Tumaadi (Tomari-Te) over Nafaadi (Naha-Te).

I just don't see the connection to Nafaadi.

One of the many reasons why I like this place so much. I didn’t know Shorei Ryu had anything to do with Goju Ryu. I learn new stuff every time I come here. Now to do some Google-Fu on Shorei Ryu, as I now realize I know practically nothing about it.

[JR 137]

Your TSD background is going to be easier to adapt to Shotokan or a Shorin-Ryu system. Goju-Ryu will be very much like starting over. As for characteristics of Goju-Ryu, I would say it tends to be heavy and sticky. These are components of Shorin-Ryu, as well, but not to the same degree that they are present in Goju-Ryu. It is plenty credible, although as with most Okinawan karate styles, it has a bit of a muddled history, in places, and political in-fighting that caused a good amount of "no, MY sensei was the true inheritor of Goju-Ryu." Even so, every branch of Goju-Ryu has good material stemming from Miyagi Chojun and Higashionna Kanryo.

As has been mentioned, of course, every dojo is going to teach things differently. In general, though, if you want to carry over your TSD training, and just make some small tweaks and keep going, Shotokan is probably the better bet. If you want to "empty your cup," so to speak, and start fresh, Goju-Ryu would be the way to go since, if nothing else, you will have to learn entirely new kata, which will help you adapt to the different mechanics and methods.

In addition to P.A.L.'s recommendations for Goju-Ryu references, I would add Kuba Yoshio Sensei, and Paul Enfield Sensei. Enfield was a senior student of Higaonna Morio, and acted as his uke and narrator for his instructional videos, before transitioning to the Jundokan and becoming a senior student and translator for Taira Masaji. His take on Goju-Ryu is something like a blend of the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIW3xOBdMI

One of my former sensei’s colleagues* is in the Masaji video.

*Would you call a karateka you work out with and exchange information with regularly a colleague?

[Wastelander]

One of the many reasons why I like this place so much. I didn’t know Shorei Ryu had anything to do with Goju Ryu. I learn new stuff every time I come here. Now to do some Google-Fu on Shorei Ryu, as I now realize I know practically nothing about it.

If I recall correctly, the Shorin-Ryu/Shorei-Ryu divide was Funakoshi's own classification of material, and not a historical one. He didn't even break it down consistently across his books, as he was re-evaluating it over time. He did tend to put Naha-Te kata in the Shorei-Ryu column, though.

Your TSD background is going to be easier to adapt to Shotokan or a Shorin-Ryu system. Goju-Ryu will be very much like starting over. As for characteristics of Goju-Ryu, I would say it tends to be heavy and sticky. These are components of Shorin-Ryu, as well, but not to the same degree that they are present in Goju-Ryu. It is plenty credible, although as with most Okinawan karate styles, it has a bit of a muddled history, in places, and political in-fighting that caused a good amount of "no, MY sensei was the true inheritor of Goju-Ryu." Even so, every branch of Goju-Ryu has good material stemming from Miyagi Chojun and Higashionna Kanryo.

As has been mentioned, of course, every dojo is going to teach things differently. In general, though, if you want to carry over your TSD training, and just make some small tweaks and keep going, Shotokan is probably the better bet. If you want to "empty your cup," so to speak, and start fresh, Goju-Ryu would be the way to go since, if nothing else, you will have to learn entirely new kata, which will help you adapt to the different mechanics and methods.

In addition to P.A.L.'s recommendations for Goju-Ryu references, I would add Kuba Yoshio Sensei, and Paul Enfield Sensei. Enfield was a senior student of Higaonna Morio, and acted as his uke and narrator for his instructional videos, before transitioning to the Jundokan and becoming a senior student and translator for Taira Masaji. His take on Goju-Ryu is something like a blend of the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIW3xOBdMI

One of my former sensei’s colleagues* is in the Masaji video.

*Would you call a karateka you work out with and exchange information with regularly a colleague?

Very cool! And yes, I would call that a colleague

[Hoshin]

i dont post much, but reading this i cant help interject.

i would have a real hesitation in the statements about Goju and Uechi being derived from Shorei - ryu. is this something you took from wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Drei-ry%C5%AB

you would have to define your use of the term Shorei - ryu but i can say that neither Goju or Uechi were derived from any prior Okinawan art. dont believ everything you read on wiki.

further: there is no link between Goju, Uechi and Funakoshi. they are complete separate entities with different histories.

EDIT: however it is possible Funakoshi might have been inspired by Goju- Ryu but the harder aspects of his karate were taught to him by his teachers.

[JR 137]

i dont post much, but reading this i cant help interject.

i would have a real hesitation in the statements about Goju and Uechi being derived from Shorei - ryu. is this something you took from wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Drei-ry%C5%AB

you would have to define your use of the term Shorei - ryu but i can say that neither Goju or Uechi were derived from any prior Okinawan art. dont believ everything you read on wiki.

further: there is no link between Goju, Uechi and Funakoshi. they are complete separate entities with different histories.

EDIT: however it is possible Funakoshi might have been inspired by Goju- Ryu but the harder aspects of his karate were taught to him by his teachers.

I don’t have anything to cite nor saying this as fact, but I believe there would have to be SOME local ti, toudi, etc. indigenous Okinawan art influence on Goju Ryu and/or Uechi Ryu.

[OneKickWonder]

i dont post much, but reading this i cant help interject.

i would have a real hesitation in the statements about Goju and Uechi being derived from Shorei - ryu. is this something you took from wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Drei-ry%C5%AB

you would have to define your use of the term Shorei - ryu but i can say that neither Goju or Uechi were derived from any prior Okinawan art. dont believ everything you read on wiki.

further: there is no link between Goju, Uechi and Funakoshi. they are complete separate entities with different histories.

EDIT: however it is possible Funakoshi might have been inspired by Goju- Ryu but the harder aspects of his karate were taught to him by his teachers.

I don’t have anything to cite nor saying this as fact, but I believe there would have to be SOME local ti, toudi, etc. indigenous Okinawan art influence on Goju Ryu and/or Uechi Ryu.

Lots of arts influenced each other. But politics are rife in martial arts. Founders or advocates of many styles liked to claim theirs is unique. Funakoshi does exactly that in his book karate do kyohan. It's full of contradiction. In one chapter he discusses the Chinese influence on karate, and in another chapter it suddenly becomes uniquely Japanese.

When we think about it, if a style is pushed as unique and not influenced by any other style, then it would be a terrible waste of time to study it. If somebody said to me, this style is mine and uniquely mine, would you like to learn it? My first question back to them would be, how can you know how effective it is? Unless someone style is so magically powerful that you can use it to defeat anyone without even having to adapt as you go, then you're going to want to pinch ideas from others that do well.

[Hoshin]

I don’t have anything to cite nor saying this as fact, but I believe there would have to be SOME local ti, toudi, etc. indigenous Okinawan art influence on Goju Ryu and/or Uechi Ryu.

In the case of traditional Uechi- ryu it is a very clear cut history. kanbun went to china when he was 19. he learnt a chinese system of fighting and taught in China. after the Boxer Rebellion he moved to main land Japan. this is simple because he never studied or taught on Okinawa other than some Bo stuff as a kid. the style didnt come to Okinawa until his son Kanyei and Kanbuns top students brought it there. the style is very consistant and shows no Okinawan influence.

for Goju-Ryu there is a similar story. Kanryo did study fighting arts on Okinawa but it was with seisho Arakaki. he left for China when he was 24. where he studied with Ryu Ryo ko and Wan Shin Zan and/or Wai Shin Zan the stories get a little fuzzy there.

Now when kanryu started teaching he called his Style Shurei- Ryu. this locally was known as Naha-te. but it is not derived from older Te styles and this should not be confused with the other styles derived from Sokon Matsumura;

orthodox shorin ryu

shorinji-ryu

shaolin shorin ryu

chubu shorin ryu

ryukyu shorin ryu

kobayashi shorin ryu

or even Shuri -te

now to confuse things even more there is a Kanyei Uechi who teaches on Okinawa and teaches kenwa mubuni shito- ryu.

kenwa mabuni's teachers were Anko Itosu and Kanryo Higaonna.

unless there is some evidence or source other than the wiki page i would go with this information.