How to find a good club?

[JazzKicker]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the more subtle aspects". The more advanced training, in my experience, happened at black belt classes and clinics. If you're not a black belt yet, that's another story.

I'm not a black belt yet. In previous clubs I've been in, that didn't matter. Prior to joining TSD I only ever graded once in another style, and that was a kung fu school where they didn't traditionally have grades, but had decided to experiment with it for the benefit of us western sorts. I trained for years in wado and never graded once. Yet in these other styles, I was treat as a martial artist with ability judged by seeing what I could do rather than the belt I wore.

All that changed when I went to TSD. When I started in had no intention of ever grading. Yet now I am nearing black belt purely because, to my surprise, they actually withhold techniques from you until you reach certain grades. This concept was alien to me and I'm still not at ease with it. Especially when you see a senior Dan grade showing off a technique I learned at white belt in aikido.

I'm at an age and experience level now where I'm starting to think about teaching. I realise people will then expect me to have a black belt, so I will continue to earn it somewhere, but wherever I go next, I really can't be pestered with being limited to the most basic techniques until I get to the higher grades in whatever I do next.

This explains a lot. In my opinion the observations you have are valid, and I think you would be happier with a school/style that wasn't so rigid about rank and syllabus. There are forms in TSD like Seisan they generally won't teach you until 4th or 5th dan- yet they are green belt forms in Okinawan styles. Most of the WTSDA one-step and self-defense techniques are laughable, but you have to learn them, 5 at a time. The bong forms are made up, and not the way Koreans traditionally used it. Same with the dagger and sword forms.

As a black belt and instructor, though, you would be expected to teach all that stuff, and the syllabus, so if you don't embrace that, you should move on.

That said, if you're close to black belt, it would be a worthwhile personal achievement to going ahead with testing. Part of what TSD tries to teach is persevering towards a goal. After that you can do whatever and not feel like a quitter.

[OneKickWonder]

This explains a lot. In my opinion the observations you have are valid, and I think you would be happier with a school/style that wasn't so rigid about rank and syllabus. There are forms in TSD like Seisan they generally won't teach you until 4th or 5th dan- yet they are green belt forms in Okinawan styles. Most of the WTSDA one-step and self-defense techniques are laughable, but you have to learn them, 5 at a time. The bong forms are made up, and not the way Koreans traditionally used it. Same with the dagger and sword forms.

As a black belt and instructor, though, you would be expected to teach all that stuff, and the syllabus, so if you don't embrace that, you should move on.

Sounds like a fair assessment to be honest. The one steps can be made to work, and in ours, we're encouraged to make them work at higher grades. But if we teach our tweaks to lower grades, we get to hear about 'the book'. Bong forms, I used to speculate that it's nothing to do with the stick, the stick serving no purpose other than to teach us to coordinate hands in wing chun style sticky hands, but more time passed and I concluded that that was just me trying to convince myself it had some value. And you're right about the senior dan stuff. I remember cringing when a senior Dan grade demonstrated a technique that I learned as a white belt in aikido.

That said, if you're close to black belt, it would be a worthwhile personal achievement to going ahead with testing. Part of what TSD tries to teach is persevering towards a goal. After that you can do whatever and not feel like a quitter.

I'm not sure I want it. The only way I can justify it to myself, possibly, is if I were planning to ask another association to consider fast tracking me if I can demonstrate enough crossover between TSD and their style, but the truth is I'm quite happy to put a white belt around my waist. In the interests of honesty and respect I'd tell the new club my current grade and experience, but completely let them decide where I fit in their system. Inevitably that would initially be at white belt. It could be that after 6 months they decide I'm able enough to jump a few ranks. Equally it may be that they decide I'm not up to their standard, and let me work through at their normal pace. I'm easy either way. My personal sense of achievement comes from being able to do something I couldn't previously do. I've tied belts of many colours. I'm sure I can already tie a black one if I try. But unless I believe in it, it would be no different to tying my old white belt.