Oss

[OneKickWonder]

If I migrate back to karate, will I find myself saying and writing 'oss' all the time, or is it optional?

I watch a lot of YouTube videos to see how other styles do things, and if I can relate any of my experience to it to gain new insights from others (I don't try to learn martial arts from YouTube, but I do like to see how others apply techniques I'm familiar with). Trouble is, I'm often drawn to read the comments afterwards. If I look at videos of any other style, the comments are fairly mixed

But for karate, it seems there's a considerable use of the word 'oss'.

I don't remember anyone suffering this affliction years ago when I practiced wado. Is it a new phenomenon? Is there a cure?

If I go to shotokan as I'm planning to, will I constantly say oss to my friends, my family, my boss at work?

In TSD, as far as I'm aware, we have nothing comparable. But that's possibly because our formal expression of gratitude is komapsumnida. Not exactly catchy.

[sensei8]

Speak with that school's CI before your first day in order to find out that school's proper etiquette/Kun. Many school's don't like, or find it improper, or are offended by it, to use that word for whatever their reason(s) might be.

Just because we know some Japanese or Korean or whatever word(s) and/or some phrase(s) through our exposure at the school/dojo, doesn't mean were fluent of any varying degree, or that we're sensitive to that cultures acceptable approach.

I used that very word my first time I went to Okinawa with both our Soke and Dai-Soke, who were both born and raised in Okinawa, and I was sorely reprimanded because what I did was very rude and offensive to them, as well as to our guests.

In short time, you'll soon discover that you'll not use that word in that school because no one's else using that word. It's the out-of-sight-out of-mind through new programming; aka, when in Rome mentality.

But again, speak with the CI asap about that word, and any other concerns you might have. Information about what one is unaware of is a powerful thing.

Edited June 24, 2018 by sensei8

[shortyafter]

In my Kyokushin school it was absolutely mandatory. Sensei and senpais would jump all over you if you didn't say it. For every little thing, even a simple "yes" would have to be something like, "Osu, yes Sensei!". Or "What's your name?" "Osu, shorty!" And you can imagine all the other applications from there.

Whereas at my current school Shotokan school it's something we use but not as a rule or in excess. I personally think it's a polite way to respond to a correction or command from my instructor. We're quite informal here so a simple "OK" or "yes" or "I understand" might do it but I do like to throw it in every now and then just to show respect for my instructor and for the art. But IMO there's no need to use it every other word, it's actually a bit strange as you pointed out.

But then again you have the case that sensei8 said where some people actually find the word disrespectful. Honestly I like the application of it (although I'm not Japanese), as long as it's used in moderation. So anyway, "when in Rome" is good advice and also speaking to your instructor. I'm not sure how much my experience applies to Shotokan/Kyokushin as a whole but I reckon Shotokan in general is a bit more lax when it comes to enforcing the use of the word.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The oss phenomenon most likely started with the kyokushin karate crowd but in some places it has spread to other karate style and further still to some other martial arts. If the karate you take up is kyokushin or somehow influenced by it, then oss will be everywhere. On the other hand if the karate is Okinawan it would probably it be used; and by chance if the sensei is also from Okinawa then oss is out of the question. Whatever it is, listen for it before using oss. If you hear it used, then oss away. If not, don’t. Simple really. A short visit to observe or a trial will answer whether or not it is a thing

[JR 137]

You won’t hear “oss” but you may hear “osu.”

My understanding is that it started out as a Kyokushin thing. If not, I’m pretty sure Kyokushin turned it into the phenomenon it is.

I’ve heard some Shotokan schools use it, some never heard of it, and some despise it. It all depends on the dojo and/or Shotokan branch, I guess.

I’ve even heard BJJ guys use it. That one threw me off a bit - a Brazilian guy training BJJ osu’ing people.

And yes, at first it’s quite annoying. And you feel stupid saying it. Then you start saying it outside the dojo every now and then. Then it you finally control it, although every now and then you get the urge to use it outside the dojo.

Both main schools I’ve attended use it heavily. Then there’s those individuals who go above and beyond with it. There’s been a person or two at both dojos I’ve trained at who annoyed me with it, and that takes some skill to do.

Using osu is like bowing in the beginning. If you always bow stepping on and off the floor, when you first started did you find yourself fighting the urge to bow when leaving a store or work? I did and so did a lot of others I know. I remember one guy a few weeks after he started training saying he bowed to the room as he walked out of a meeting at work.

The Okinawan karate guys (not Okinawans themselves) I know tell me we’re so annoying with how often we say osu. I worked out at an Okinawan dojo for a summer one year (Seiyu Oyata’s RtuTe Renmei) run by an American guy. They said “hai” just as often, if not more often, and all the same ways we say osu. But yeah, we’re annoying and they’re not

As sensei8 said and most repeated, “When in Rome” or better yet, “when in an osu dojo” or when in a hai dojo”...

And in the meantime, may the osu be with you.

[shortyafter]

You won’t hear “oss” but you may hear “osu.”

My understanding is that it started out as a Kyokushin thing. If not, I’m pretty sure Kyokushin turned it into the phenomenon it is.

I’ve heard some Shotokan schools use it, some never heard of it, and some despise it. It all depends on the dojo and/or Shotokan branch, I guess.

I’ve even heard BJJ guys use it. That one threw me off a bit - a Brazilian guy training BJJ osu’ing people.

And yes, at first it’s quite annoying. And you feel stupid saying it. Then you start saying it outside the dojo every now and then. Then it you finally control it, although every now and then you get the urge to use it outside the dojo.

Both main schools I’ve attended use it heavily. Then there’s those individuals who go above and beyond with it. There’s been a person or two at both dojos I’ve trained at who annoyed me with it, and that takes some skill to do.

Using osu is like bowing in the beginning. If you always bow stepping on and off the floor, when you first started did you find yourself fighting the urge to bow when leaving a store or work? I did and so did a lot of others I know. I remember one guy a few weeks after he started training saying he bowed to the room as he walked out of a meeting at work.

The Okinawan karate guys (not Okinawans themselves) I know tell me we’re so annoying with how often we say osu. I worked out at an Okinawan dojo for a summer one year (Seiyu Oyata’s RtuTe Renmei) run by an American guy. They said “hai” just as often, if not more often, and all the same ways we say osu. But yeah, we’re annoying and they’re not

As sensei8 said and most repeated, “When in Rome” or better yet, “when in an osu dojo” or when in a hai dojo”...

And in the meantime, may the osu be with you.

Lol. Good post.

This reminds me. When I first started Kyokushin karate I also signed up for a 10 week salsa course (as much as I love music, let's just say there's a reason why I stuck with karate and not dance, lol...). Whenever I would get a correction from the teacher I really had to work hard to stuff my "Osu". Pretty sure it escaped me a few times. And most recently I had been having problems with my throat/voice and I had to go see the ear, nose and throat specialist. He stuck a nasty snake like thing up my nose and down my throat to get a view with the camera. He said "you won't like this but it's bearable". And he was pretty much right. I went into karate mode and I have to admit it was really uncomfortable and sort of painful. Luckily it was over before I knew it. Once the snake thing was out he says "Not so bad, right?". And my reply is "Osu". Lol.

Osu to all of you.

[OneKickWonder]

Thanks all.

So reading between the lines so to speak, it looks like oss / osu is an imperial Japanese thing, and the okinawans dislike it. Much like the old bassai / passai pronunciation debate.

That being the case, if the shotokan club I intend to go to is old school, oss will be absent, as Funakoshi identified as Okinawan. If it's been swept along into the mainstream, perhaps it will be more imperial Japanese influenced, in which case every exhale will sound like oss after a time.

Does this sound about right?

[JR 137]

Thanks all.

So reading between the lines so to speak, it looks like oss / osu is an imperial Japanese thing, and the okinawans dislike it. Much like the old bassai / passai pronunciation debate.

That being the case, if the shotokan club I intend to go to is old school, oss will be absent, as Funakoshi identified as Okinawan. If it's been swept along into the mainstream, perhaps it will be more imperial Japanese influenced, in which case every exhale will sound like oss after a time.

Does this sound about right?

Osu! I mean, yes

But seriously... what you say makes sense. I’m not sure if that’s truly accurate, but it sounds logical.

Funakoshi was quite a bit before Oyama’s Kyokushin days, so perhaps not. Oyama trained under Funakoshi for some time, so perhaps he got it from there? Extremely unlikely. I’m pretty sure it was his own thing and not Funakoshi’s nor Yamaguchi’s (Goju Kai).

[Spartacus Maximus]

The idea and concept of “osu/oss” is entirely from Oyama as far as its use in kyokushin. It is definitely not something he got from any of those who taught him. Another fact worthy of note is that Oyama and the Kyokushin has had considerable back-influence because of its reputation and fame. This means that some styles without any connection began to copy things like “osu/oss”

From personal experience, the reason why Okinawan teachers might not like it is for two main reasons. First because it sounds rude, crude and uncouth suitable for rowdy college students. Definitely not something one would use with one’s teacher.

It is also associated with the underworld of gangsters and other undesirable which any decent karate teacher would avoid like the plague lest he gain a reputation for teaching gangsters.

[JazzKicker]

There used to be a website called "24fightingchickens" run by a Shotokan BB who debunked a lot of the nonsense around karate.

He had trained in Japan for a while, as well. One of the things he noted was, "oss" was like saying "Yo!" - it's kind of rude.

And in the TSD world, I was first taught "ko map sum ni da". Years later my native born Korean Hapkido instructor told me the proper way to say it was "Kam sa hap ni da".

Edited June 25, 2018 by JazzKicker