Unfriendly sempais in the dojo

[sensei8]

Either those Sempai's in question are acting out when the CI isn't on the floor...

OR

The CI is just like those Sempai's; the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree!!

[JR 137]

I’ve heard about that stuff too, it only saw it once in my former dojo. She was a very good fighter, very good assistant teacher, and a very nice person outside the dojo. When she was in charge, ie sensei wasn’t there, she was on a huge power trip.

A few of the seniors went to our sensei with a few specifics. She was gone soon thereafter. Her reaction to the allegations told my former sensei all he needed to know.

That wasn’t tolerated at my former dojo, and it wouldn’t be tolerated in my current dojo. There’s stories of 2 or 3 people doing similar things when our CI was away. They were shown the door without hesitation once the allegations were known to be legitimate. They all opened their own dojos afterwards. None survived more than a few years at best.

The dojo should be a home away from home. Sure people are going to have their differences and everyone isn’t going to be the best of friends, but there’s no room for making people feel uncomfortable in their training.

[shortyafter]

The dojo should be a home away from home. Sure people are going to have their differences and everyone isn’t going to be the best of friends, but there’s no room for making people feel uncomfortable in their training.

Just wanted to highlight that quote. Good stuff. Our senpais should challenge us but they shouldn't make us feel stupid or dumb or inferior. At least that's not what I'm in this thing for.

[barefoot-kohai]

OK, unless there's some backstory I'm missing here, this one seems to be real simple: find a new dojo. Karate is challenging but it is never abusive or humiliating.

Thank you very much! The only backstory is that I am a foreigner. I will think about another dojo.

First: Find a new Dojo. If you have been respectful to others, others must be respectful to you. If somebody, specially a sempai (or even a sensei) thinks that he/she is better than others, just for the simple fact of having a more advanced degree than you they don't deserve to be called sempai.

I have seen attitudes like "I am a black belt, these white or yellow belts shouldn't be addressing me unless asked". People with such ideas can be good, or even excellent practicioners, but they will NEVER be sempais. They don't deserve to be considered as that.

Degree may give you some privileges, but they come with a price: you become a "sort of" public figure in class -something like a model- and you must give example, in practice and attitude (at least in class).

Honestly, a particular day, sometimes a black belt "feels the need" to spar with other black belts, but this particular day the circumstances lead you to practice with a beginner. If you are a black belt, don't think about it as a nuisance: In terms of quality, sometimes YOU WILL LEARN MORE FROM YOUR KOHAIS THAN FROM YOUR SENSEI.

Kohais (or beginners), also must know when to "leave space" to sempais: sometimes, when practicing complicated techniques or preparing some kind of formal kumite, is not the best time to interrupt with a question about how gedan barai is performed.

It is a bit on each side: respect and etiquette. I follow the rule "we are all friends here"

Second: Being a foreigner shouldn't have to be a problem. Karate is karate: in a Dojo you are neither asian nor american nor anything. You are a Karate-ka, your culture is respect and your language is karate. Tsukis and keris are not local or foreign.

Best of lucks.

[yfconan]

Thank you so much all for your suggestions. I still go to the same dojo as it is just 3 minutes walking distance from my home. Some of the sempais are still being rude but I just try to ignore them. The sensei is one of the best karate masters in the city, and he is humorous and very good at teaching karate in a simple way. Today some of the sempais kept laughing at me when they saw me making mistakes in sampon kumite, but the sensei was very kind to me and I noticed that he actually spent more time correcting my errors. I make progress and that's already my big fortune. Osu!

OK, unless there's some backstory I'm missing here, this one seems to be real simple: find a new dojo. Karate is challenging but it is never abusive or humiliating.

Thank you very much! The only backstory is that I am a foreigner. I will think about another dojo.

First: Find a new Dojo. If you have been respectful to others, others must be respectful to you. If somebody, specially a sempai (or even a sensei) thinks that he/she is better than others, just for the simple fact of having a more advanced degree than you they don't deserve to be called sempai.

I have seen attitudes like "I am a black belt, these white or yellow belts shouldn't be addressing me unless asked". People with such ideas can be good, or even excellent practicioners, but they will NEVER be sempais. They don't deserve to be considered as that.

Degree may give you some privileges, but they come with a price: you become a "sort of" public figure in class -something like a model- and you must give example, in practice and attitude (at least in class).

Honestly, a particular day, sometimes a black belt "feels the need" to spar with other black belts, but this particular day the circumstances lead you to practice with a beginner. If you are a black belt, don't think about it as a nuisance: In terms of quality, sometimes YOU WILL LEARN MORE FROM YOUR KOHAIS THAN FROM YOUR SENSEI.

Kohais (or beginners), also must know when to "leave space" to sempais: sometimes, when practicing complicated techniques or preparing some kind of formal kumite, is not the best time to interrupt with a question about how gedan barai is performed.

It is a bit on each side: respect and etiquette. I follow the rule "we are all friends here"

Second: Being a foreigner shouldn't have to be a problem. Karate is karate: in a Dojo you are neither asian nor american nor anything. You are a Karate-ka, your culture is respect and your language is karate. Tsukis and keris are not local or foreign.

Best of lucks.

[OneKickWonder]

Thank you so much all for your suggestions. I still go to the same dojo as it is just 3 minutes walking distance from my home. Some of the sempais are still being rude but I just try to ignore them. The sensei is one of the best karate masters in the city, and he is humorous and very good at teaching karate in a simple way. Today some of the sempais kept laughing at me when they saw me making mistakes in sampon kumite, but the sensei was very kind to me and I noticed that he actually spent more time correcting my errors. I make progress and that's already my big fortune. Osu!

Sounds good. If the teacher is good and respectful, then I wouldn't worry too much about other students.

When you step into the training hall, there are really only 2 people in there. You and the teacher. Of course you have to be aware of everyone else, so you don't collide with each other. The exception being in any form of partnered work. Then there is only you and your training partner, and an awareness of the teacher.

Every time we set foot in the training hall, our goal is to become better in some way than we were last time we practiced. The goal is not to be better than anyone else. It is to be better than your earlier self. If there are people there laughing at you, that means they are comparing themselves to you, which in turn means they are not focusing on their own improvement. If you can focus on your self in spite of others laughing and judging, then you have an immediate advantage. You will improve faster than them in every way.

Good luck and stick with it. Your determination and focus will pay off.

[MatsuShinshii]

Thank you so much all for your suggestions. I still go to the same dojo as it is just 3 minutes walking distance from my home. Some of the sempais are still being rude but I just try to ignore them. The sensei is one of the best karate masters in the city, and he is humorous and very good at teaching karate in a simple way. Today some of the sempais kept laughing at me when they saw me making mistakes in sampon kumite, but the sensei was very kind to me and I noticed that he actually spent more time correcting my errors. I make progress and that's already my big fortune. Osu!

Sounds good. If the teacher is good and respectful, then I wouldn't worry too much about other students.

When you step into the training hall, there are really only 2 people in there. You and the teacher. Of course you have to be aware of everyone else, so you don't collide with each other. The exception being in any form of partnered work. Then there is only you and your training partner, and an awareness of the teacher.

Every time we set foot in the training hall, our goal is to become better in some way than we were last time we practiced. The goal is not to be better than anyone else. It is to be better than your earlier self. If there are people there laughing at you, that means they are comparing themselves to you, which in turn means they are not focusing on their own improvement. If you can focus on your self in spite of others laughing and judging, then you have an immediate advantage. You will improve faster than them in every way.

Good luck and stick with it. Your determination and focus will pay off.

To the underlined above, very solid points!

The martial arts is not about how good or poor others are but about how well you become. There is rarely anyone to fight your battles so to waste time analyzing your fellow students is a mute point.

Concentrate on yourself and ignore those that would judge you. As stated you will overcome them in due time and that will end the ridicule and laughter.

[pers]

I am learning shotokan karate as a beginner in a dojo in London and I find the sempais there are not friendly. For example, the black belts deliberately ignore me during the kumite, making me standing alone there. If someone comes to stand opposite me, they start to laugh at him/her. The sensei is an excellent Japanese karate master, but I really dislike the atmosphere in the dojo. How could I deal with it?

I guess you are either in Kawazoe sensei or Ohta sensei's dojo.

They are both excellent teachers.

Ignore the treatment and stay put and train hard, eventually they will change their mind about you give it time and be courteous.

You are in good hands with any of Those two instructors.

[Himokiri Karate]

I have been in boxing and various martial arts ( karate,judo,kung fu) and to be honest with you, at the end of the day, everyone is a human being and even martial arts experts are going to have their prejudice and terrible characteristic as a human being.

When I was a young teenager I was doing Shotokan and the Friday night instructor was the meanest person ever. He would do katas and I couldn't do it right and he kept saying making rude remarks not worth mentioning.

I for the longest time had a bad taste in my mouth against Shotokan but then there are beautiful human beings in Shotokan like Sensei Hotton who's teaching philosophy can be applied to other martial arts. My point is what the other poster said, you are a paying customer, he is your employee in a context of providing a service in their area of expertise which is karate. Failure to provide proper knowledge/attention means that he is not doing his job correctly which means you have a right to leave.

[OneKickWonder]

When I was a young teenager I was doing Shotokan and the Friday night instructor was the meanest person ever. He would do katas and I couldn't do it right and he kept saying making rude remarks not worth mentioning.

.

When I used to train as a teenager, in wado then kung fu, the instructors were very mean. But they were mean because they were instilling discipline while teaching combat.

Back then, this was the 1980s, I've heard it was even worse going further back, being a martial arts instructor was a free ticket to be violent. They would step us mid technique, make us hold our position and focus while having a leisurely walk around inspecting. And then they test someone at random. A totally unprovoked punch to the face to see if you block it or evade in time. Or a leg sweep to test how solid your stance is. It sounds horrible, but it sharpish develops your mental readiness and attention to detail. If you blocked or dodges their random attack, they'd look at you for a moment, you'd look straight back at them with no emotion on your face whatsoever, they'd pause, you'd keep staring, then they'd give a subtle nod and move along the lines.

I remember one day at kung fu. We had a new guy. He was only on his second or third class. Our grandmaster visited from China. I guess if he'd known this guy was only on his second or third class he might have cut him a bit of slack. Anyway, he'd stopped us mid technique for inspection. There we all were eyes forward, no expression on our faces, machine like. Except the new guy who was looking about and smirking. I saw grandmaster in my peripheral vision slowly heading down the line inspecting us. He got to me, made some subtle adjustments to my posture, and moved on. I remember being surprised that he walked straight past the fidgety guy. Then suddenly, all I heard was HAI. ... BOOM. The grandmaster had delivered a dragon tail sweep and the fidgety new guy had literally gone airborne, and crash landed flat on his back.

He never came back to class after that day.