Krav Maga

[Karateka_latino]

Haven't trained that Style, but i looked a TV special about self defense and they had clips of one class.. It looked nice for that..self defense..

[KM1]

I have been training in Krav Maga for a little more than a year and I am going to have to say that in my opinion, Krav Maga is very well one of the best martial arts. If you are thinking of something very effective but at the same time very practical, I'm gonna say go with Krav Maga. If you have to protect yourself, your friends or your family, against an attacker, no matter what his size or if he has a weapon or not, Krav Maga would probably be your best choice. If you have any questions about it or i didn't touch on a topic you would like to know about , feel free to email me

[JerryLove]

Simple, Aggressive, very effective, very well rounded style.

I was with you right until you said "rounded". What I have seen KM teach was not terribly rounded.

 

Let's assume you are making an art for the millitary.

 

I don't want anything that requires a long time to train, or upkeep; I also don't care if it has anything new to offer after a yearr, that's not what the focus is.

 

I don't care about "defeating the larger attacker" or defence when you are old, or movements anyone can do... all my trainees are oung and in excellent shape.

 

I don't care much about being rounded... the scienerios are pretty straight-forward.

 

I don't care about level of force, I'm training people whose job is to kill things.

 

At the risk of getting in the same battle with the same people, I have not seen that your claim that it is well rounded is supported. It seems to be a well-designed millitary art. If you are taking it and enjoy it, more power to you. I'm sure it's effective. It is not all things to all people, and it is not particularly well rounded (that I have witnessed).

[David Erath]

Hello,

 

I teach self-defense full time in New Orleans and because most years we are ranked #1 for murders, armed robbery, etc., most of my clients are very interested in gun, stick, and knife defense.

 

I have tested a large number of gun, stick, and knife defenses for more than 10 years, including many from Krav Maga. I have not found a single Krav Maga gun defense to work against a fully resisting opponent. I've tested them with paintball and gas-blowback airsoft guns. I have also found the stick and knife defenses to be ineffective against a moderately skilled, noncooperative opponent.

 

One gun defense we use at my school is similar to the strip used in Krav Maga. The problem with the Krav Maga strip is that it is done on the second beat. The defender grabs the wrist and moves out of the way, then strips the gun. This will not work. Try it. The attacker will be able to yank his hand out of your grip before the strip begins. There is also a problem with this defense regarding the alignment of the week points in a grip. The hands grab the wrist and gun, thumb up, aligning the week point, and allowing the attacker to yank his wrist and gun out. The other primary gun defense in Krav Maga, involving wrapping the arm from underneath with a simultaneous elbow, is very weak. If the elbow is blocked, which it most likely will be, the wrap will not secure the attacker's limb if he is fully resisting.

 

Although the style is geared more toward realistic self-defense than other TMA's, there are some serious flaws in many of the weapons defenses, and it lacks depth, concerning strategy and tactics if your first response fails.

 

David https://www.hertao.com

[TJS]

Simple, Aggressive, very effective, very well rounded style.

I was with you right until you said "rounded". What I have seen KM teach was not terribly rounded.

 

Let's assume you are making an art for the millitary.

 

I don't want anything that requires a long time to train, or upkeep; I also don't care if it has anything new to offer after a yearr, that's not what the focus is.

 

I don't care about "defeating the larger attacker" or defence when you are old, or movements anyone can do... all my trainees are oung and in excellent shape.

 

I don't care much about being rounded... the scienerios are pretty straight-forward.

 

I don't care about level of force, I'm training people whose job is to kill things.

 

At the risk of getting in the same battle with the same people, I have not seen that your claim that it is well rounded is supported. It seems to be a well-designed millitary art. If you are taking it and enjoy it, more power to you. I'm sure it's effective. It is not all things to all people, and it is not particularly well rounded (that I have witnessed).

 

I think you misunderstood my intent, let me clarify. Well rounded as in It Covers all areas of a fight. you would be hard pressed to find a single style that has such a variety of techniques. Standup fighting, Fighting From the clinch, Ground fighting, Defense from suprise attack, multiple attackers, various chokes,holds, locks weaopn defenses and counters. etc...and do them all in a way where you will be alto do them under stress.

 

And also KM Is desined to work for men and women of all diffrent shapes and sizes. Most of the choke defneses etc are still very effectivce for smaller or weaker students.

 

Your assumption that it only works for young fit soldiers is very innacurate..if you had ever performed the techniques you would know this.

 

David Earth-I have not done any Gun defenses yet so I can not discuss that point with you in debth But I would have to say I have know Instructors to practice with air pistols and resisting opponets and pull them off succesfully.

 

KM black belts have to succesfully perform the gun and knife defenses against a highly resisting attacker who is allowed to punch,kick,hit them etc...so there are always 2 sides to the story.

[JerryLove]

I think you misunderstood my intent, let me clarify. Well rounded as in It Covers all areas of a fight. you would be hard pressed to find a single style that has such a variety of techniques. Standup fighting, Fighting From the clinch, Ground fighting, Defense from suprise attack, multiple attackers, various chokes,holds, locks weaopn defenses and counters. etc...and do them all in a way where you will be alto do them under stress.

If something does not address this (all ranges, with and without weapons), it is not a fighting art IMO. It's a sport with fighting applications.

And also KM Is desined to work for men and women of all diffrent shapes and sizes.

That does not make sense.

 

let's look at a quote from the KravMaga.com history page.. udner 1964... "Imi devoted his time and energy to adapting KM to everyday life. "

 

Notice "adapting". One does not adapt an art to do what it was initially designed for. Every history I have ever seen says KM was created on commission of the State of Isreal for use my millitary personell. To make an art for a target audience (soldiers engaged in HTH) and then *not* tailor the art to those people is insane.

 

If KM was not designed specifically for young, fit adults, then Imi is an idiot for not designing to task. I don't believe he is an idiot, I believe he deisgned to task. I believe you are talking later additions and modifications and assuming they are inherent in the base system.

Most of the choke defneses etc are still very effectivce for smaller or weaker students.

You seem to think my statemnts are an attack on KM that you need to defend. As such, I don't believe you are taking an impartial and honest look at your art or what I am saying about it.

Your assumption that it only works for young fit soldiers is very innacurate..if you had ever performed the techniques you would know this.

Don't straw-man my argument. I never said "only works for", I said:

 

"I don't care about "defeating the larger attacker" or defence when you are old, or movements anyone can do... all my trainees are oung and in excellent shape."

 

And by inference indicated that KM would take the same approach.

KM black belts have to succesfully perform the gun and knife defenses against a highly resisting attacker who is allowed to punch,kick,hit them etc...so there are always 2 sides to the story.

I'm not commenting weather this is the case with KM in particular.. but I have seen in many arts many "resisting" opponents that offer nothing but a token struggle.

 

I'm reminded of the guy who is the guniepig for much of the nono-leathal weapons experimentation. I've watched video where he gets sprayed with pepperspry and falls down. I've seen a 12-year old fight right through the stuff.

 

Try this experiment. Tell your resisting attacker "if you can win, you get 1 million dollars" (obviously, this is not liekly to be taken seriously, but try to give him that mmind-set, that motivation to win). See if suddenly the whole game changes.

 

If you consistanly win against a 'resisting attacker", then he is not really trying.

[TJS]

If something does not address this (all ranges, with and without weapons), it is not a fighting art IMO. It's a sport with fighting applications.

 

very true but there are hundreds of schools that offer "effective self defense" that do not.

I don't care about "defeating the larger attacker" or defence when you are old, or movements anyone can do... all my trainees are oung and in excellent shape."

 

The techniques work for a large variety of people, I have practiced them with women who I outweigh by a huge margin and they can still perfrom them despite my efforts.

 

I understand it was designed for Military But it WAS designed for both men AND women of various ages since they all serve in the military in Israel. I Think he differ in opinion on that point of I am misunderstanding.

 

I would like to say I appreciate you being level headed and discussing things instead off attacking(like many people), I appreciate that and i Think you have some good points.think

[David Erath]

TJS, I practiced and taught a system similar to KM, that included gun, stick, and knife defense, etc., for several years. I thought all of the techniques would work, and had tried them against larger and stronger people, after telling them to resist, etc. I later found out that they would not. Most people who are friends with you, or are practicing the same style, will have a hard time resisting like some lunatic on the street would.

 

I think it is most important for anyone practicing martial arts, to try to find a week point in each defense or method. This is most important with regard to weapons defense, since one mistake can get you killed. As I said, I have tried many of the KM gun, stick, and knife defenses, and none have worked against a fully resisting opponent. Now, that is not to say that they will never work, or that they might work if you have the element of surprise on your side. But, I am certain that they can be improved upon.

 

Take the gun strip I mentioned before for example...the strip occurs on the second beat, after moving offline. If you tell your partner to try to yank his arm back and away as soon as you begin your defense, you will see that he will be able to. I think an attacker on the street would certainly try to jerk out of your grip immidiately also.

 

With regard to the knife defenses, give your partner a marker, put on an old T-shirt, and tell him to try to slice you up as best he can, and try the knife defenses.

 

The last point I will mention, is that any style that is made up of a number of specific defenses against specific attacks, is practicing for the first instant of an attack. If your initial defense fails, of course it may not, what is the backup plan. I'm not trying to blast KM here. I think it's more effective for self-defense than the majority of what's out there. Just make sure you test everything you do, before trying to use it on the street. Good luck,

 

David https://www.hertao.com

[TJS]

Just make sure you test everything you do, before trying to use it on the street. Good luck,

 

Good point. I think that sums it up right there, That is a huge weakness of many Schools.

[JerryLove]

Yes, it's an easy problem for even the best of schools. I know I've had issue more than once with people not offering sufficient resistance.

 

One problem is that we must train in degrees. You are teaching someone a techniquem you are not going to try your best to defeat it, because you will. Unfortuanately, this trains in even the best of us compliance; and that does not help when testing.

 

Drawing the line between over-cooperation and over-competition (defeating the technique base on superior knowledge of what is going on) is a fine draw indeed. A realiztic understanding of what is done through cooperation and what despite resistance is a terriffic goal.