Flexibility training

[shortyafter]

My instructor says there's a difference between stretching for a warm-up and stretching as flexibility training. I do the former every day, even if I'm not actually going to do any karate training. Just some light/moderate stretching to keep the body greased up and loose. Flexibility training would be something like, where you stretch really vigorously for 30 minutes or so and push your body further and further. I don't really do much of that.

My instructor seems really into the latter, and has even suggested something like setting up a pullie system in my home to crank up my legs. Honestly, to me it doesn't feel right, so I haven't made a huge effort to do it. It feels like I'm contorting my body in ways it's not really meant to move. But hey, I'm willing to admit it if I'm wrong. And on the other hand I've seen instructors on YouTube who say that they don't stretch at all - the positions we use like zenkutsu dachi, kokutsu dachi and kiba dachi already give us a nice stretch.

The weakest part of my karate is my side kick and round house kick, and my instructor thinks it's a flexibility problem. I'm not totally sure. Because there's days where I've been able to pull it off and days where I haven't. I think it's more to do with the fact that I haven't got the "knack" of it yet. But hey, again, I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong.

So I wanted some more experienced opinions from you folks. What do you think about this sort of vigorous flexibility training? Do you do it? Is it necessary? How often do you do it? Any other tips?

Thanks.

[OneKickWonder]

Side kick and roundhouse kicks just don't work unless you get the foot work on the supporting leg is right. No foot pivot, no decent kick. Super flexible people might be able to sort of do it, but for most, the body doesn't bend the way you want it to unless you get the footwork right.

As for the kind of brutal flexibility your instructor recommended. Depends on many factors. But for most it is a terrible outdated idea long disproven by science yet still pushed in training halls everywhere. You will see rapid short term gains, as you tear muscle fibres. But they'll vanish quickly as the muscle heals. Worse, the muscle pulls tight to protect itself from further injury while it heals so you can end up less flexible in the long term.

Go to a yoga or tai chi class. They don't force their stretches yet they are often super flexible.

Flexibility is something that takes time and patience to develop. And sadly, we all have limits that no amount of training will overcome. But a combination of strength training and gentle but frequent stretching is, in my experience, the best long term solution. That and getting the minor details of the techniques right too so that you're working with what you have rather than against it.

[shortyafter]

Side kick and roundhouse kicks just don't work unless you get the foot work on the supporting leg is right. No foot pivot, no decent kick. Super flexible people might be able to sort of do it, but for most, the body doesn't bend the way you want it to unless you get the footwork right.

As for the kind of brutal flexibility your instructor recommended. Depends on many factors. But for most it is a terrible outdated idea long disproven by science yet still pushed in training halls everywhere. You will see rapid short term gains, as you tear muscle fibres. But they'll vanish quickly as the muscle heals. Worse, the muscle pulls tight to protect itself from further injury while it heals so you can end up less flexible in the long term.

Go to a yoga or tai chi class. They don't force their stretches yet they are often super flexible.

Flexibility is something that takes time and patience to develop. And sadly, we all have limits that no amount of training will overcome. But a combination of strength training and gentle but frequent stretching is, in my experience, the best long term solution. That and getting the minor details of the techniques right too so that you're working with what you have rather than against it.

I'm a beginner but this seems to fit with my intuition. When I try this brutal stretching method I can actually feel my body tense up. It's like I'm working against myself. Which really makes no sense. Thank you for chiming in. I will continue to stretch frequently and gently. As well as continue to work on my technique.

And let's see what the rest have to say.

[singularity6]

We do static stretching before every class (yeah, it's old-school.)

When I'm home and training, I don't do much stretching until the end. My warm up tends to consist of moving around (twists, bends, etc) for a bit, maybe some exercises with light dumbbells, push ups, sit ups, and then I hit the bag or do forms (sometimes both.) For the bag work, I start off slow - strikes are not hard, and if I kick, I kick low. Then I work up to my max height, with considerable power after a bit. Then I go through my stretching routine as a cool-down. I found my flexibility has improved more that way than doing things the old-school way.

Another thing that's helped me, is strengthening my hips. I did a lot with various leg lifts (you can do an internet search for details.) Also, this video has been quite helpful, if you haven't already seen it:

[Tempest]

OOOOK.... this is a debate that is as old as time but is not really limited to just Karate.

Flexibility is best improved by CONSISTENT work over time, not by brutal short term solutions.

Dynamic stretches work better than static, but static stretches DO help.

BUT, you must push yourself a little bit each time.

However, with kicking it's about more than flexibility, it's also strength and balance in the supporting leg as well as technique.

One good test to see if flexibility is really even the problem:

Can you do the splits? If not, which most adult males can't so it's ok, how low can you go?

If you can get most of the way down, and are kicking to targets about belt level and below, then flexibility is not the issue.

You may need a bit more to help with head kicks, but once again it develops over time.

[OneKickWonder]

If you can stretch Forward enough to touch your toes while keeping your legs straight (but not locked at the knees), and if you can do a calf raise on one foot with the other foot off the ground, then you can kick head height.

The first point, that's because if you get the technique right, most of the tension goes down the back of the supporting leg. It certainly shouldn't go through the hip.

The second point is if you can do that, then you have the strength needed to get the foot pivot done.

Most people can easily achieve both, so after that it comes down entirely to technique.

[LLLEARNER]

I get a sharp pain on the outside of my hip when I kick too high. It feels muscular. I can really only get higher after an hour or more of stretching and kicking. I am working on my hip flexibility this summer. Hopefully I will be able to post improvement. My goal is both front and side splits.

[singularity6]

If I did the splits, I'd stay there.

[JazzKicker]

Flexibility training for karate is necessary, for sure. Every sport benefits from it, but martial arts more so because of the variety and range of motion.

Old school was a brief warm up, then deep static stretching like splits, etc. Sports science has learned that warming up and doing dynamic stretching within the normal range of motion for the activity is best. I would stop short of ballistic stretching, things like throwing axe kicks, before you're really warmed up. Then, to improve range of motion, do static stretching at the end of the workout.

Gizmoes like racks and pulleys do work, but they have to be used carefully to avoid injury.

Some people will always struggle to kick high because of the structure of their hips- the joints simply won't allow it.

I would also caution that relying on leg flexibility to kick high, and maintaining a vertical spine,erect posture, will put a lot of strain on your low back and potentially damage the discs in your sacrum.

[sensei8]

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Take the time to work into the stretch while keeping mindful of things can can injure you, i.e., bouncing and such.

Rushing any stretch gets one injured, and as my doctor always reminds me of...

"Are you in a hurry to injure yourself??"

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Work into any stretch with a modicum of sensibility; the more one feels stiff, the more time one will need to stretch at a smart pace. The overused phrase "Over time" isn't stressed enough; ones betterment is risked when one ignores that fact that improvement, of any degree, takes exactly that...time.

No one earned anything in the MA overnight, and no one will earn the desired stretching ability overnight either; over time, things of interest are earned, and therefore, achieved.