Teacher / student incompatibility

[OneKickWonder]

The wife asked me earlier, if I regret quitting aikido.

I genuinely struggled to answer. Here's why.

When I first joined, the chief instructor assigned one of his subordinate instructors to take me through the basics. The chap he chose was a good lad. Despite me having all the advantages on paper, I was bigger, stronger, fitter, more agile and younger than him, he could put a technique on me and control me. I thoroughly enjoyed working with him because I knew that what he was teaching would work against someone my size.

Now here's the problem. When he put a technique on, it hurt. I mean really hurt. I didn't mind. I'd trained in other styles. I was and am used to a bit of pain. But behind his back,other students would complain about him. Students that within aikido, were higher grade than me. I was a mere white belt in aikido.

So one day, without explanation, the chief instructor told me I'd be working with one of the other instructors from now on. A chap that was black belt, but, I don't want to judge, simply could not get any technique to work on me unless I voluntarily yielded. I remember him once very politely holding me in an arm bar trying to force me to the floor, politely asking if there's anything I could do, and I simply stood up straight without effort.

So this got me to thinking. Nobody at that club was a bad martial artist in my opinion. And none of the teachers were bad teachers. I don't even think there were bad students. But there were incompatibilities. My former teacher was good for me, but clearly not so good for anyone that wants to be eased gently into the more brutal aspects. My latter teacher was probably excellent for those starting out in their martial arts journey, but not so good for anyone that's used to being thrown violently to the ground.

By extension, this got me to thinking, are there bad students and bad teachers, or just incompatibilities?

This is kind of a random musing, but if be interested to see what others think.

Edited May 12, 2018 by OneKickWonder

[singularity6]

I feel both situations exist. I teach for a living. For the most part, my students really like me and the way I teach. Occasionally, there is one I fail to reach, or that I struggle to get along with. Sometimes I might see that person as a bad student. Other times it's just an incompatibility. I'm sure it's the same from their perspective. Regardless,

perception is reality for most people.

[JR 137]

I’m also a school teacher. There are teachers who quite frankly have no business teaching, teachers who are truly outstanding, and everything in between.

There are horrible students, excellent students, and everything in between. I hate saying there’s horrible students, but it’s true. Some people just don’t want to be there no matter what’s being taught nor how it’s being taught.

No matter how good they are, no teacher is going to be able to teach every single student to the same high level. There’s too many differing teaching styles, learning styles, and personalities. To say students are visual learners, auditory learners, and/or hands-on learners is over simplifying things.

I’ve found the best way to get students to learn is to get them to buy into what’s being taught. Showing and explaining why they’re learning what they’re learning goes quite a long way IMO. When I fail to do that, I typically have students who are just going through the motions. When I do that, they’re typically not just learning something for the sole sake of passing a test.

Even the hypothetical best teacher ever isn’t going to be the best teacher for every student. In MA where you have a choice of teachers, it’s about finding the best teacher for you. A lot of that comes down to compatible personalities.

[sensei8]

Not all black belts can teach, nor should they try; either they can or they can't!!

Both, teacher and student have to reach a middle ground together, and then, decide if their relationship is a fit. If not, then they must part ways.

Compatibility's are strained if ones not willing to compromise enough for the betterment of the goal. That goal is LEARNING!! Who's to compromise? The student and/or the teacher?? I believe...BOTH, to some degree!!

The teacher teaches the curriculum to their best abilities. The student learns the curriculum to their best abilities. That middle ground, for the learning/teaching can be reached, has to be defined somehow by someone.

Just because the CI/black belt runs the curriculum and the school, that doesn't mean that the student is the property of the CI/black belt. Either the teacher or the student have to decide what's best for themselves.

I've seen black belts give into the student for the sake of retention. That's the worse thing a black belt can do because the middle ground becomes quite muddled; who's the darn teacher and who's the darn student...decide now!!

The student's betterment depends on an instructor who CAN TEACH!! However, the teacher's betterment depends on the student who CAN LEARN!!

If a student and I are not compatible, for one reason or another, and attempts have been made to the betterment of the student, then it's time for the student to seek a wider sky somewhere else.

As the teacher, I have to teach THAT student because not everything is universal on the dojo floor; learning curves vary...teaching curves vary too!!

Imho!!

[MatsuShinshii]

We do our best to teach but there are times that no matter what you do you can not reach certain students. Typically it is a personality issue where your personality and way of teaching does not mesh with the student or the student for whatever reason just doesn't like you. It happens.

On the other end of the spectrum, as Sensei8 points out, there are those that should not be teaching. In this case the issue resolves itself when students leave.

Those that gauge themselves on a single student are destine to fail. If 95+% of your students come to you because of how or what you teach, then to change to suit one is a guaranteed way to loose the majority.

Too often I feel, in order to gain more students, instructors change what made them successful to pander to those that would not have lasted a day in class to begin with. IMHO this makes absolutely no sense. You in effect sell your principles to gain a few more students but in the end those that are there because of what and how you teach will eventually drift away and look elsewhere.

Not everyone will get along and not every student is teachable. Chasing after those that will never get it is a futile gesture and waste of the instructors and more importantly the rest of the students time. In effect; if you pander to one then you effect the rest.

I never understood reducing requirements to include those that can't meet them. MA's are NOT for everyone.

[OneKickWonder]

I should say, I got on with all the instructors there. There'll all good people and good martial artists. But for me personally, I was getting more out of class with the former instructor than the latter.

[JazzKicker]

OneKick, I think you're being too kind to simply call it incompatibility.

In the example you gave, one instructor black belt had effective technique, the other did not. Worse, the second one wasn't just fooling himself. Your fellow students got into complaining about the first one because they had been led to believe they could practice effectively without it being at all rough or painful.

This is the kind of group suggestibility that leads to the phony demos you see so often in aikido (and, to be fair, some of the pressure point/ no-touch knockout things).

[bushido_man96]

Lots of good points being made here, and I tend to side with most of the others here in regards to instructors and students. There are good students, bad students, good and bad teachers, and there are incompatibilities. I like having different teachers of the same subject (like different TKD instructors on different days, if possible) because you get a different style out of each of them, and each has different nuances and idiosyncrasies. This is good for reaching all kinds of different students. I think each student will naturally gravitate to a specific instructor if you cornered them and asked them which they like better, but its good for them to be pulled out of their comfort zone and exposed to a different instructor so they get a different approach.

[tallgeese]

I think both exist for sure, but student/ coach incompatibility is a real thing. Sometimes it's just a matter of teacher style v. learner style that makes life easier or harder. Often it's a disconnect on goals. In these situations it can be as simple as finding another instructor in the same art.

There certainly are people who shouldn't be teaching, but I think that personalities, learning styles, and goals are more frequent.

[tallgeese]

OneKick, I think you're being too kind to simply call it incompatibility.

In the example you gave, one instructor black belt had effective technique, the other did not. Worse, the second one wasn't just fooling himself. Your fellow students got into complaining about the first one because they had been led to believe they could practice effectively without it being at all rough or painful.

This is the kind of group suggestibility that leads to the phony demos you see so often in aikido (and, to be fair, some of the pressure point/ no-touch knockout things).

I'm very careful about making these statements. Size and strength are a real thing, and they matter. May the seconds technique was fine, but the differences were too insurmountable, maybe they are fine with the technique but the first was simply better at a give set of tactics. There's a hundred reasons.