Black Belt

[RW]

To me it means a fundamental question, a desire to understand its true nature, much like the original post in this topic.

Certain very legit martial arts schools (no mcdojos) don't have full contact training. They have sparring, but it's either point sparring or "real" sparring with mid contact and protective gear. I am in the latter kind of school. I am in martial arts to develop technique, execute the kata and drills flawlessly and to be competent at kumite.

But I am not sure whether that can make a "black belt". I am a year away from getting my black belt, if everything goes well, but I don't feel like I am a much better fighter than I was before my journey. Certainly not "OMG he is a black belt, don't mess with him!" better, but that is not why I started this journey too.

What are your thoughts?

To the bold - I'll just say that if you are a year away from testing for Shodan and you have not improved since you have started there is something wrong.

Not talking about you personally. If you have been training for "x" number of years and have not improved substantially and gained confidence in your abilities to defend yourself they is something missing.

I mean, I sure I have, but I don't feel like I am anything special, if you know what I mean

[Struggling_Mudansha]

No disrespect intended but you are not a Shodan. I understand that you feel like your at that level but it's obvious your instructor does not feel the same or they would have already given you the grade.

I never said that I felt I was at the level of Shodan. Our head sensei literally said, "Students do not earn the right to train until they make Shodan." I said all I wanted to do was learn Karate, but in order to do that, I have to make it to black belt. It's a paradox. I don't really care what's tied around my waist.

IMHO you are missing the point altogether. The Mudansha grades are a chance for you to learn the basics. The foundation to all principles, theories, techniques, movements and applications that you will learn beyond that point. This is a typical problem I have seen since I first started teaching. Everyone wants to skip over the most important time in training to get to a belt.

Forget about the belt. If you do not master the basics that belt will literally mean nothing. To me it sounds like your in a hurry to achieve something that in your mind obviously means you've arrived.

My 2 cents is slow down and enjoy your time and learn all you can. Fast forwarding to BB just means you get to wear a black piece of cloth that will mean nothing. Concentrate on perfection of the basic skills and the basic Kata and the belt will come and more importantly have meaning other than a piece of cloth.

You say all you ever wanted to do is learn Karate and you can't do that until Shodan.

This makes no sense. There is a reason that everyone starts at the beginning and works up from there. You have to learn to walk before you can run. It's not personal and everyone has to go through it. There are lessons that you will learn beyond memorizing a bunch of techniques. This takes time and can not be fast forwarded. The lessons do not come from a manual, they come from constant practice.

I have no desire to skip the basics and I have worked as hard as anyone could with what my teachers have shown me.

Your not a Shodan and that is why your not treated as one. Your Sensei doesn't teach you advanced Kata because your not at an advanced level yet.

No, I'm not a Shodan because of the "in-time" requirements that is required in our dojo. That's how our school works; it doesn't matter how far you've taken your training, if you haven't been in your rank for a specified amount of time, you don't get to test. Period. This applies to the yudansha grades as well.

There is a reason why it takes the time that it does. You have to mature both physically and mentally. If I taught you advanced principles and techniques you wouldn't grasp them fully. Because of this you have to first understand the basics and the lessons that they teach you. Not just being able to memorize and perform them but know them and understand them.

I know. This is the stuff I want to learn. Every time I get a snippet of this information, my enthusiasm is restored and things don't feel so much like a grind.

Just because you know a few cords doesn't mean you understand how they fit together nor how to make them sound like music. If you quit learning after knowing a few cords, yes you can strum your guitar but you're never going to be Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Les Paul or anyone else that paid their dues to become great. You can't reach to those heights because you skipped past the most important lessons.

Hopefully you understand what I am saying. Spend time trying to understand the lessons found in learning the basics. They give you a foundation to build from and eventually you will have the many ah ha moments when you suddenly realize what was once not apparent. This will never happen if you skip past these lessons.

Advanced Kata is like all other Kata. They all have lessons to teach the practitioner. One does not hold all of the secrets which is why you learn them all. Again all in due time.

Slow down and stop stressing about a belt. The belt is just another beginning. If you truly feel you'll quit after receiving the belt you might as well quite and just go buy yourself a BB now because again you will have missed the point altogether. It's a LIFE long journey. Three years is literally a drop in the bucket and Shodan is not the end of the journey but a beginning.

Trust me, I understand fully what you're saying.

[JazzKicker]

Reading the responses I notice that there's a much different perspective from the people who are still reaching for the goal vs. those that made it and been around for a while.

I feel bad for the people with the comments about it being stressful, not fun, still not knowing how to fight, exhausting, etc. It doesn't have to be like that.

Thinking back, I had a few of those feelings at times, too, and not training for 1rst dan, but 3rd! I'm glad I did it, but when I went on to train in other arts that didn't have belts, or didn't bother much with rank, it was quite freeing. I also saw, in MMA training, people develop into very proficient fighters in 6-12 months training.

What I'm getting at is, the meaning of a black belt is more about what you get out of the process of attaining it.

[MatsuShinshii]

Struggling_Mudansha,

First off I want to apologize as I misunderstood your post.

Second I want to comment on the "Students do not earn the right to train until they make Shodan." quote in your post. I have no idea what this means and do not understand this statement.

The only thing I can come up with is what I consider the students probationary period to verify they are serious about training and have the right mentality and character.

However not having the right to train until you are a Shodan makes absolutely no sense to me. What exactly does this mean? Are you not taught the curriculum of the Mudansha grades? Are you treated as a guest rather than a student until that time? What does this actually mean?

All of my students (once they prove that they are there to learn - probation) have the right to train.

[MatsuShinshii]

To me it means a fundamental question, a desire to understand its true nature, much like the original post in this topic.

Certain very legit martial arts schools (no mcdojos) don't have full contact training. They have sparring, but it's either point sparring or "real" sparring with mid contact and protective gear. I am in the latter kind of school. I am in martial arts to develop technique, execute the kata and drills flawlessly and to be competent at kumite.

But I am not sure whether that can make a "black belt". I am a year away from getting my black belt, if everything goes well, but I don't feel like I am a much better fighter than I was before my journey. Certainly not "OMG he is a black belt, don't mess with him!" better, but that is not why I started this journey too.

What are your thoughts?

To the bold - I'll just say that if you are a year away from testing for Shodan and you have not improved since you have started there is something wrong.

Not talking about you personally. If you have been training for "x" number of years and have not improved substantially and gained confidence in your abilities to defend yourself they is something missing.

I mean, I sure I have, but I don't feel like I am anything special, if you know what I mean

I get it, however you should not feel this way with only a year till you test. By that point you should have confidence in your abilities and should be able to see marketable improvement from when you started.

[Struggling_Mudansha]

However not having the right to train until you are a Shodan makes absolutely no sense to me. What exactly does this mean? Are you not taught the curriculum of the Mudansha grades? Are you treated as a guest rather than a student until that time? What does this actually mean?

I have no idea. It's probably what you describe below:

The Mudansha grades are a chance for you to learn the basics. The foundation to all principles, theories, techniques, movements and applications that you will learn beyond that point.

Still, it'd be nice if I was thrown a bone every once in while in terms of understanding things a little more deeply.

[OneKickWonder]

To me it means a fundamental question, a desire to understand its true nature, much like the original post in this topic.

Certain very legit martial arts schools (no mcdojos) don't have full contact training. They have sparring, but it's either point sparring or "real" sparring with mid contact and protective gear. I am in the latter kind of school. I am in martial arts to develop technique, execute the kata and drills flawlessly and to be competent at kumite.

But I am not sure whether that can make a "black belt". I am a year away from getting my black belt, if everything goes well, but I don't feel like I am a much better fighter than I was before my journey. Certainly not "OMG he is a black belt, don't mess with him!" better, but that is not why I started this journey too.

What are your thoughts?

It sounds like you and I are at a similar point in our respective journeys. So I'll share some of my own musings, to see if you can relate.

Very often, rather than being a super tough martial artist, I actually feel like an aching old man that's always working around some niggling minor injury or other.

In training, because it is hour upon hour, month after month of same training, you don't always notice the gradual improvement. Exactly like you don't always notice you're getting older until one day you realise your hair has stopped growing

When I first went back to training (consider it starting again as it had been years since I'd last trained), the student that had to take time out due to exhaustion or faintness or a sprain was usually me. In fact it was pretty much always me. Then one, out of respect for the feelings of others, I kept eyes forward as someone else wobbled out of the hall with assistance to be cooled down and checked over by the first aiders. Then it happened other times. Then one day I realised the student that bails out first is no longer usually me. The training hadn't become particularly more intense. The students hadn't become less fit. The only remaining explanation is that I'd become more fit.

By the same token, I suddenly realised that I don't seem to always have a pulled muscle somewhere, and I hardly ever fall over these days in kick drill. If I take a decent knock, I don't seem to hurt as much as I used to after just a light knock.

In sparring, I used to burn out because of firing off a rapid volley of kicks and punches way before I was even in range. Now I find myself completely at ease and conserving my energy and applying just the right techniques at the right moment. Sure I still get walloped, but I suddenly fund that between fluid movement and increased resilience I can very often just absorb it without panicking (disclaimer, we only use light contact, about 50% force max).

But then I see footage of real thugs fighting. Sometimes I see it for real. Less so now I'm getting older and don't go out to nightclubs anymore but still I see it occasionally. Look up footage of an untrained thug fighting. If ever you need reminding that people are just bald monkeys that have evolved into weaklings, just watch the average drunkard fight. Sure it's still dangerous and scary. But think about the speed and power and accuracy of your moves compared to the untrained thug.

I still don't feel like a hard case. But if martial arts teaches us anything, surely it teaches us to see the truth. Mostly about ourselves. That truth is usually I guess that we're not some legendary warrior. The truth is we are just people. But the truth is also that we train a lot harder than many, and we endure a lot more. And we are everything we used to be, but with more added on. If we have to fight a drunken thug, there no guarantee we'd come off best. That's true whether you've got at least a year til black belt, or if you're 10th Dan in everything. But you know more about yourself and your own abilities than before. You know exactly how fast you can move, how much you can take, how well you move etc.

Oh and if you're anything like me, then despite your best efforts, you may be still compare yourself against your peers. Except nowadays your peers are all martial artists. You're not comparing yourself to the untrained drunken idiot that wants to start a fight for no good reason. You're comparing yourself against people who have trained and fought with a clear mind and stone cold logic for years.

[sensei8]

I never said that I felt I was at the level of Shodan. Our head sensei literally said, "Students do not earn the right to train until they make Shodan." I said all I wanted to do was learn Karate, but in order to do that, I have to make it to black belt. It's a paradox. I don't really care what's tied around my waist.

To the bold type above...

HUH??

All students earn the right to train, no matter the rank. That's why I'm always saying that the most important rank is WHITE BELT because the other ranks, especially black belt, do not and can not occur without first TRAINING as a White belt. Concerning the subject at hand, the other ranks before black belt have earned the right to train too.

Imho!!

[RW]

To me it means a fundamental question, a desire to understand its true nature, much like the original post in this topic.

Certain very legit martial arts schools (no mcdojos) don't have full contact training. They have sparring, but it's either point sparring or "real" sparring with mid contact and protective gear. I am in the latter kind of school. I am in martial arts to develop technique, execute the kata and drills flawlessly and to be competent at kumite.

But I am not sure whether that can make a "black belt". I am a year away from getting my black belt, if everything goes well, but I don't feel like I am a much better fighter than I was before my journey. Certainly not "OMG he is a black belt, don't mess with him!" better, but that is not why I started this journey too.

What are your thoughts?

It sounds like you and I are at a similar point in our respective journeys. So I'll share some of my own musings, to see if you can relate.

Very often, rather than being a super tough martial artist, I actually feel like an aching old man that's always working around some niggling minor injury or other.

In training, because it is hour upon hour, month after month of same training, you don't always notice the gradual improvement. Exactly like you don't always notice you're getting older until one day you realise your hair has stopped growing

When I first went back to training (consider it starting again as it had been years since I'd last trained), the student that had to take time out due to exhaustion or faintness or a sprain was usually me. In fact it was pretty much always me. Then one, out of respect for the feelings of others, I kept eyes forward as someone else wobbled out of the hall with assistance to be cooled down and checked over by the first aiders. Then it happened other times. Then one day I realised the student that bails out first is no longer usually me. The training hadn't become particularly more intense. The students hadn't become less fit. The only remaining explanation is that I'd become more fit.

By the same token, I suddenly realised that I don't seem to always have a pulled muscle somewhere, and I hardly ever fall over these days in kick drill. If I take a decent knock, I don't seem to hurt as much as I used to after just a light knock.

In sparring, I used to burn out because of firing off a rapid volley of kicks and punches way before I was even in range. Now I find myself completely at ease and conserving my energy and applying just the right techniques at the right moment. Sure I still get walloped, but I suddenly fund that between fluid movement and increased resilience I can very often just absorb it without panicking (disclaimer, we only use light contact, about 50% force max).

But then I see footage of real thugs fighting. Sometimes I see it for real. Less so now I'm getting older and don't go out to nightclubs anymore but still I see it occasionally. Look up footage of an untrained thug fighting. If ever you need reminding that people are just bald monkeys that have evolved into weaklings, just watch the average drunkard fight. Sure it's still dangerous and scary. But think about the speed and power and accuracy of your moves compared to the untrained thug.

I still don't feel like a hard case. But if martial arts teaches us anything, surely it teaches us to see the truth. Mostly about ourselves. That truth is usually I guess that we're not some legendary warrior. The truth is we are just people. But the truth is also that we train a lot harder than many, and we endure a lot more. And we are everything we used to be, but with more added on. If we have to fight a drunken thug, there no guarantee we'd come off best. That's true whether you've got at least a year til black belt, or if you're 10th Dan in everything. But you know more about yourself and your own abilities than before. You know exactly how fast you can move, how much you can take, how well you move etc.

Oh and if you're anything like me, then despite your best efforts, you may be still compare yourself against your peers. Except nowadays your peers are all martial artists. You're not comparing yourself to the untrained drunken idiot that wants to start a fight for no good reason. You're comparing yourself against people who have trained and fought with a clear mind and stone cold logic for years.

Wow. Your post is so accurate and relatable!

Turns out I ended going to a competition 2 weeks ago. I ended sparring with this annoying dude (kind of a bully) from another school, that beat me 2 years ago... but this time I got the best of him. It was especially nice in the sense that I won and I still kept humble and level headed and he was visibly upset.

I almost considered not competing this time around because I felt I was in a very bad shape due to past injuries, but I improved quite a bit.

Inspiring post OneKickWonder

[shortyafter]

To me it means a fundamental question, a desire to understand its true nature, much like the original post in this topic.

Certain very legit martial arts schools (no mcdojos) don't have full contact training. They have sparring, but it's either point sparring or "real" sparring with mid contact and protective gear. I am in the latter kind of school. I am in martial arts to develop technique, execute the kata and drills flawlessly and to be competent at kumite.

But I am not sure whether that can make a "black belt". I am a year away from getting my black belt, if everything goes well, but I don't feel like I am a much better fighter than I was before my journey. Certainly not "OMG he is a black belt, don't mess with him!" better, but that is not why I started this journey too.

What are your thoughts?

It sounds like you and I are at a similar point in our respective journeys. So I'll share some of my own musings, to see if you can relate.

Very often, rather than being a super tough martial artist, I actually feel like an aching old man that's always working around some niggling minor injury or other.

In training, because it is hour upon hour, month after month of same training, you don't always notice the gradual improvement. Exactly like you don't always notice you're getting older until one day you realise your hair has stopped growing

When I first went back to training (consider it starting again as it had been years since I'd last trained), the student that had to take time out due to exhaustion or faintness or a sprain was usually me. In fact it was pretty much always me. Then one, out of respect for the feelings of others, I kept eyes forward as someone else wobbled out of the hall with assistance to be cooled down and checked over by the first aiders. Then it happened other times. Then one day I realised the student that bails out first is no longer usually me. The training hadn't become particularly more intense. The students hadn't become less fit. The only remaining explanation is that I'd become more fit.

By the same token, I suddenly realised that I don't seem to always have a pulled muscle somewhere, and I hardly ever fall over these days in kick drill. If I take a decent knock, I don't seem to hurt as much as I used to after just a light knock.

In sparring, I used to burn out because of firing off a rapid volley of kicks and punches way before I was even in range. Now I find myself completely at ease and conserving my energy and applying just the right techniques at the right moment. Sure I still get walloped, but I suddenly fund that between fluid movement and increased resilience I can very often just absorb it without panicking (disclaimer, we only use light contact, about 50% force max).

But then I see footage of real thugs fighting. Sometimes I see it for real. Less so now I'm getting older and don't go out to nightclubs anymore but still I see it occasionally. Look up footage of an untrained thug fighting. If ever you need reminding that people are just bald monkeys that have evolved into weaklings, just watch the average drunkard fight. Sure it's still dangerous and scary. But think about the speed and power and accuracy of your moves compared to the untrained thug.

I still don't feel like a hard case. But if martial arts teaches us anything, surely it teaches us to see the truth. Mostly about ourselves. That truth is usually I guess that we're not some legendary warrior. The truth is we are just people. But the truth is also that we train a lot harder than many, and we endure a lot more. And we are everything we used to be, but with more added on. If we have to fight a drunken thug, there no guarantee we'd come off best. That's true whether you've got at least a year til black belt, or if you're 10th Dan in everything. But you know more about yourself and your own abilities than before. You know exactly how fast you can move, how much you can take, how well you move etc.

Oh and if you're anything like me, then despite your best efforts, you may be still compare yourself against your peers. Except nowadays your peers are all martial artists. You're not comparing yourself to the untrained drunken idiot that wants to start a fight for no good reason. You're comparing yourself against people who have trained and fought with a clear mind and stone cold logic for years.

Agree with RW. This was a good post. Made me feel good about my (sometimes slow) progress. Thank you.