Forms on wrong foot

[OneKickWonder]

Kata / hyung / forms generally always are a certain way round.

For example, a particular form might start by turning to the left into a particular move. That form always starts by turning to the left.

A different form might have us twist left before seemingly attacking to our right. Again, that form always goes that way round.

In fact when I think about it, every form I know starts with a twist or turn to the left.

Is there any reason for this? Something philosophical perhaps, relating to yin and yang? Or perhaps it's practical, often our left side is preferred as the forward side?

Or perhaps it's simpler than that. Perhaps it's just that the original creators of the forms habitually preferred a certain side?

Does anyone else think about such trivialities?

Fundamentally, would it still be the same form if we did it the opposite way, it starting to the right instead of left?

[MatsuShinshii]

Kata / hyung / forms generally always are a certain way round.

For example, a particular form might start by turning to the left into a particular move. That form always starts by turning to the left.

A different form might have us twist left before seemingly attacking to our right. Again, that form always goes that way round.

In fact when I think about it, every form I know starts with a twist or turn to the left.

Is there any reason for this? Something philosophical perhaps, relating to yin and yang? Or perhaps it's practical, often our left side is preferred as the forward side?

Or perhaps it's simpler than that. Perhaps it's just that the original creators of the forms habitually preferred a certain side?

Does anyone else think about such trivialities?

Fundamentally, would it still be the same form if we did it the opposite way, it starting to the right instead of left?

Well not all Kata start to the left. Seisan and Passai start to the front and Naihanchi and Rohai start to the right.

As far as a reason for the direction each Kata starts, I can not say for sure as I have never really gave it much thought or bothered to ask the question. I guess you have to start in one direction or another so I guess left is just as good of a direction as any.

[sensei8]

I've never concerned myself with things like these because it had to start, and it had to go somewhere, and then it had to end. I've never heard our Soke and/or Dai-Soke speak towards these things mentioned in the OP!!

I suppose some things are better left alone.

Edited March 1, 2018 by sensei8

[OneKickWonder]

I ponder these things because a form is meant to convey the essence of the art. At some point in history, and skilled fighter has put together some moves that he thinks will show all the basic movements from which everything else is built.

If that skilled fighter from history could only fight right handed opponents, then he wasn't really that skilled.

Therefore I suspect the intention might have been to use the form as a mere template on which to base ones practice and study.

In another thread, I asked how does one decide when they truly know a form. Well I think if you can't do it with the directions swapped or reversed, then you don't know it.

[sensei8]

One of the cruel and fun things that I love to do, is scramble up a Kata, just to see how the student deals with it...plus...I get to entertain myself at the students expenses.

Have the student go opposite because it's opposite day. Have the student go backwards. Have the student segment it. Have the student blindfolded. Have the student start/end it at my discretion. These, and many more. Not allowing the student to ever finish it because they messed up, even though, the mess up is extremely minor. Do every other movement. I've a million was to humor myself.

Yes, it's cruel fun for me...I do get bored of the same old thing over and over. If no one can execute any given movement in any shape, way, and/or form, then, I agree that that person doesn't really know said Kata.

To know the Kata is to be intimate with said Kata, and not in a casual passing!!

Edited March 1, 2018 by sensei8

[OneKickWonder]

One of the cruel and fun things that I love to do, is scramble up a Kata, just to see how the student deals with it...plus...I get to entertain myself at the students expenses.

Have the student go opposite because it's opposite day. Have the student go backwards. Have the student segment it. Have the student blindfolded. Have the student start/end it at my discretion. These, and many more. Not allowing the student to ever finish it because they messed up, even though, the mess up is extremely minor. Do every other movement. I've a million was to humor myself.

Yes, it's cruel fun for me...I do get bored of the same old thing over and over. If no one can execute any given movement in any shape, way, and/or form, then, I agree that that person doesn't really know said Kata.

To know the Kata is to be intimate with said Kata, and not in a casual passing!!

Excellent.

[JR 137]

We’ll occasionally do a kata “migi hajime” or start to the right/opposite side. It confuses you a bit if you haven’t done it before or done it in a while.

We also do “ura kata” which is you do a 360 degree spin before every forward step. It gets a bit tricky too. I’m not a fan of it personally, it it’s ok. Apparently Mas Oyama would occasionally have students do it during class. After he died, it somehow became formally added to the syllabus. It’s formally part of the Seido syllabus too.

[OneKickWonder]

We sometimes take bits of forms, and practice them as combos in basic drill lines. It's amazing how difficult it can be to coordinate everything, even if you can perform the exact same piece flawlessly in the form.

This is something that bothers me. Without being able to take combat moves from a form reduces that form to nothing more than a dance routine.

This is just one of several reasons why I personally like to dissect forms and look at them from many different angles.

Something else bothers me. In our club now, as we have a very low student turnover, most of us are getting towards the sharp end grade wise. Most can perform several forms very well. Yet once sparring starts, the footwork and body positioning of many even higher grades is frankly embarrassing to watch. I can't understand how they can move so well in forms and then become robotic and linear in sparring. Our rules place limits on the range of techniques that can be used in sparring, but there are no restrictions on movement. Yet the pattern is largely the same. People constantly trying to break the opponent's centre while defending their own. Getting out 8f the way by jumping backwards etc. So rare do we see any diagonal movements or skilled entries that are absolutely everywhere throughout the forms. I strongly suspect that many students see forms as a necessary part of grading and nothing more.

[bushido_man96]

I wonder if it has to do with the majority of the population in human history being right handed. If you step to your left to start the form, that puts the right hand side, which for most of us, is our power side, back, which is the usual position for generating power with an attack or defense from the right side of the body.

Subsequently, it could be that the initial attack from a threat is with their own right hand, perhaps grabbing our left wrist, or left shoulder, or otherwise attacking with their right hand, thus forcing us to defend with the closest tool, out left side.

[sensei8]

I wonder if it has to do with the majority of the population in human history being right handed. If you step to your left to start the form, that puts the right hand side, which for most of us, is our power side, back, which is the usual position for generating power with an attack or defense from the right side of the body.

Subsequently, it could be that the initial attack from a threat is with their own right hand, perhaps grabbing our left wrist, or left shoulder, or otherwise attacking with their right hand, thus forcing us to defend with the closest tool, out left side.

Solid post!!

It could also be, the summation of 'why' is to the summation of 'because'!!

And/or this...

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc..."After this, therefore, because of this." The term refers to a logical fallacy that because two events occurred in succession, the former event caused the latter event.