Giving up karate and taking up judo

[conrad665]

"For me to be able to go to somewhere else, I need to take a reference letter kind of thing from him. "

Why do you need a letter?

The transfer process goes like this in my country: you pay some money to your previous Sensei, s/he gives you that reference thing if s/he is O.K. with your leaving the club, and only then can you become a member of a new club.

Also, you may not have to give up on karate. You can still attend seminars or maybe do some drop-ins a couple times a month with Sensei's who focus on the art itself and self-defense. You can still work your katas at home. Karate and Judo complement each other very well, in my opinion at least. Even in the few katas I know I have been able to see applications into Judo throws.

Well, actually, this is good advice, thanks, LLLEARNER I regularly practice karate at least once a week. I think I'm a bit afraid of forgetting and losing everything I have practiced and learned so far, and never being able to return and continue from where I have left. I have never taken a break from karate since I started ten years ago -except a three-month-period when I broke a limb, and another period because of a nastier injury. But anyway, taking at least a few months off would really help me make up my mind.

I have recently discovered a Kyokushin karate club and joined one session, and I think what they practice is closer to what I want to learn. Maybe I should go talk to that Sensei to let me in for some time and get to know their style better.

Karate and judo are similar in some respects, as far as I know, too, but in my karate club, we never practiced judo techniques. You do not have to think about what a technique is for or whether it is useful that way, even if you sacrifice the correct technique for showing off and looking flashy in kata. I have little knowledge of how techniques in kata can be used against actual opponents. Judo, however, is much more realistic in that sense.

[JR 137]

"For me to be able to go to somewhere else, I need to take a reference letter kind of thing from him. "

Why do you need a letter?

The transfer process goes like this in my country: you pay some money to your previous Sensei, s/he gives you that reference thing if s/he is O.K. with your leaving the club, and only then can you become a member of a new club.

Also, you may not have to give up on karate. You can still attend seminars or maybe do some drop-ins a couple times a month with Sensei's who focus on the art itself and self-defense. You can still work your katas at home. Karate and Judo complement each other very well, in my opinion at least. Even in the few katas I know I have been able to see applications into Judo throws.

Well, actually, this is good advice, thanks, LLLEARNER I regularly practice karate at least once a week. I think I'm a bit afraid of forgetting and losing everything I have practiced and learned so far, and never being able to return and continue from where I have left. I have never taken a break from karate since I started ten years ago -except a three-month-period when I broke a limb, and another period because of a nastier injury. But anyway, taking at least a few months off would really help me make up my mind.

I have recently discovered a Kyokushin karate club and joined one session, and I think what they practice is closer to what I want to learn. Maybe I should go talk to that Sensei to let me in for some time and get to know their style better.

Karate and judo are similar in some respects, as far as I know, too, but in my karate club, we never practiced judo techniques. You do not have to think about what a technique is for or whether it is useful that way, even if you sacrifice the correct technique for showing off and looking flashy in kata. I have little knowledge of how techniques in kata can be used against actual opponents. Judo, however, is much more realistic in that sense.

So you can’t leave one club and join another without the original club’s owner’s written permission?

That could quite possibly be the most absurd thing I’ve heard in the martial arts, and I’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff. I’m not saying you’re misinformed, as I don’t know where you live and train, I’m just saying that that policy is pretty crazy. It’s one thing if you’re transferring from one club to another club within an organization, ie transferring from the NYC branch of Joe’s Karate School to the Los Angeles branch of Joe’s Karate School. While I wouldn’t completely agree with it, I could see that being done for paperwork, rank, and instructors in the same organization not competing with each other and stuff like that. But to leave a school and start somewhere else entirely? It’s mind boggling to me.

Are you sure this is an official policy, like a legal policy that’s applicable to all MA schools in your country, or is this something you’ve heard that could be urban legend? Kind of like the urban legend here in the US that black belts must register their hands and feet as lethal weapons with their local police department. It’s pure nonsense, but people still actually believe it.

I’d check with an independent party to make sure it’s an actual policy and not something people have made up to keep students from leaving.

[MatsuShinshii]

"For me to be able to go to somewhere else, I need to take a reference letter kind of thing from him. "

Why do you need a letter?

The transfer process goes like this in my country: you pay some money to your previous Sensei, s/he gives you that reference thing if s/he is O.K. with your leaving the club, and only then can you become a member of a new club.

Also, you may not have to give up on karate. You can still attend seminars or maybe do some drop-ins a couple times a month with Sensei's who focus on the art itself and self-defense. You can still work your katas at home. Karate and Judo complement each other very well, in my opinion at least. Even in the few katas I know I have been able to see applications into Judo throws.

Well, actually, this is good advice, thanks, LLLEARNER I regularly practice karate at least once a week. I think I'm a bit afraid of forgetting and losing everything I have practiced and learned so far, and never being able to return and continue from where I have left. I have never taken a break from karate since I started ten years ago -except a three-month-period when I broke a limb, and another period because of a nastier injury. But anyway, taking at least a few months off would really help me make up my mind.

I have recently discovered a Kyokushin karate club and joined one session, and I think what they practice is closer to what I want to learn. Maybe I should go talk to that Sensei to let me in for some time and get to know their style better.

Karate and judo are similar in some respects, as far as I know, too, but in my karate club, we never practiced judo techniques. You do not have to think about what a technique is for or whether it is useful that way, even if you sacrifice the correct technique for showing off and looking flashy in kata. I have little knowledge of how techniques in kata can be used against actual opponents. Judo, however, is much more realistic in that sense.

So you can’t leave one club and join another without the original club’s owner’s written permission?

That could quite possibly be the most absurd thing I’ve heard in the martial arts, and I’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff. I’m not saying you’re misinformed, as I don’t know where you live and train, I’m just saying that that policy is pretty crazy. It’s one thing if you’re transferring from one club to another club within an organization, ie transferring from the NYC branch of Joe’s Karate School to the Los Angeles branch of Joe’s Karate School. While I wouldn’t completely agree with it, I could see that being done for paperwork, rank, and instructors in the same organization not competing with each other and stuff like that. But to leave a school and start somewhere else entirely? It’s mind boggling to me.

Are you sure this is an official policy, like a legal policy that’s applicable to all MA schools in your country, or is this something you’ve heard that could be urban legend? Kind of like the urban legend here in the US that black belts must register their hands and feet as lethal weapons with their local police department. It’s pure nonsense, but people still actually believe it.

I’d check with an independent party to make sure it’s an actual policy and not something people have made up to keep students from leaving.

I agree. Absolute nonsense!

I think that this is a misconception of an introduction letter within the same organization. You don't have to pay money, it's not a necessity, nor does it keep you from joining another school in another town/city/state/country. It's a courtesy and nothing more.

Instructors will write a letter of introduction to make the transition easier and establish the students credentials. It basically states that they are a student of yours, they trained for "x" years, hold the grade of "x" and are in good standing with the organization, and your contact information should other information be needed.

It's not needed nor is it a requirement for either the student or instructor. It's a courtesy and nothing more. No one forces this nor does it keep the student from joining another school.

Outside of an organization... Absolute nonsense! Sounds to me like a way to get a few more dollars out of the student before they leave. I wouldn't pay a dime.

[conrad665]

"For me to be able to go to somewhere else, I need to take a reference letter kind of thing from him. "

Why do you need a letter?

The transfer process goes like this in my country: you pay some money to your previous Sensei, s/he gives you that reference thing if s/he is O.K. with your leaving the club, and only then can you become a member of a new club.

Also, you may not have to give up on karate. You can still attend seminars or maybe do some drop-ins a couple times a month with Sensei's who focus on the art itself and self-defense. You can still work your katas at home. Karate and Judo complement each other very well, in my opinion at least. Even in the few katas I know I have been able to see applications into Judo throws.

Well, actually, this is good advice, thanks, LLLEARNER I regularly practice karate at least once a week. I think I'm a bit afraid of forgetting and losing everything I have practiced and learned so far, and never being able to return and continue from where I have left. I have never taken a break from karate since I started ten years ago -except a three-month-period when I broke a limb, and another period because of a nastier injury. But anyway, taking at least a few months off would really help me make up my mind.

I have recently discovered a Kyokushin karate club and joined one session, and I think what they practice is closer to what I want to learn. Maybe I should go talk to that Sensei to let me in for some time and get to know their style better.

Karate and judo are similar in some respects, as far as I know, too, but in my karate club, we never practiced judo techniques. You do not have to think about what a technique is for or whether it is useful that way, even if you sacrifice the correct technique for showing off and looking flashy in kata. I have little knowledge of how techniques in kata can be used against actual opponents. Judo, however, is much more realistic in that sense.

So you can’t leave one club and join another without the original club’s owner’s written permission?

That could quite possibly be the most absurd thing I’ve heard in the martial arts, and I’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff. I’m not saying you’re misinformed, as I don’t know where you live and train, I’m just saying that that policy is pretty crazy. It’s one thing if you’re transferring from one club to another club within an organization, ie transferring from the NYC branch of Joe’s Karate School to the Los Angeles branch of Joe’s Karate School. While I wouldn’t completely agree with it, I could see that being done for paperwork, rank, and instructors in the same organization not competing with each other and stuff like that. But to leave a school and start somewhere else entirely? It’s mind boggling to me.

Are you sure this is an official policy, like a legal policy that’s applicable to all MA schools in your country, or is this something you’ve heard that could be urban legend? Kind of like the urban legend here in the US that black belts must register their hands and feet as lethal weapons with their local police department. It’s pure nonsense, but people still actually believe it.

I’d check with an independent party to make sure it’s an actual policy and not something people have made up to keep students from leaving.

I agree. Absolute nonsense!

I think that this is a misconception of an introduction letter within the same organization. You don't have to pay money, it's not a necessity, nor does it keep you from joining another school in another town/city/state/country. It's a courtesy and nothing more.

Instructors will write a letter of introduction to make the transition easier and establish the students credentials. It basically states that they are a student of yours, they trained for "x" years, hold the grade of "x" and are in good standing with the organization, and your contact information should other information be needed.

It's not needed nor is it a requirement for either the student or instructor. It's a courtesy and nothing more. No one forces this nor does it keep the student from joining another school.

Outside of an organization... Absolute nonsense! Sounds to me like a way to get a few more dollars out of the student before they leave. I wouldn't pay a dime.

Unfortunately, this is a requirement in my country -probably a precaution because instructors do not like losing their successful students after spending so much time and effort on them, when they are offered better training conditions and stuff. There is even a list of fees on the official website of our national karate federation, for the amount you need to pay to transfer to other clubs, and this amount skyrockets if you represented your country in competitions and got medals. Fortunately, I am a mere karateka with no medals but I do not want to pay this still huge amount of money to my instructor, either-nearly equal to what I pay in one year to him. Actually, there is no other Shotokan club in my city that I can attend and offers better training, so what I have in mind is quit it rather than transfer to somewhere else.

[LLLEARNER]

"For me to be able to go to somewhere else, I need to take a reference letter kind of thing from him. "

Why do you need a letter?

The transfer process goes like this in my country: you pay some money to your previous Sensei, s/he gives you that reference thing if s/he is O.K. with your leaving the club, and only then can you become a member of a new club.

Also, you may not have to give up on karate. You can still attend seminars or maybe do some drop-ins a couple times a month with Sensei's who focus on the art itself and self-defense. You can still work your katas at home. Karate and Judo complement each other very well, in my opinion at least. Even in the few katas I know I have been able to see applications into Judo throws.

Well, actually, this is good advice, thanks, LLLEARNER I regularly practice karate at least once a week. I think I'm a bit afraid of forgetting and losing everything I have practiced and learned so far, and never being able to return and continue from where I have left. I have never taken a break from karate since I started ten years ago -except a three-month-period when I broke a limb, and another period because of a nastier injury. But anyway, taking at least a few months off would really help me make up my mind.

I have recently discovered a Kyokushin karate club and joined one session, and I think what they practice is closer to what I want to learn. Maybe I should go talk to that Sensei to let me in for some time and get to know their style better.

Karate and judo are similar in some respects, as far as I know, too, but in my karate club, we never practiced judo techniques. You do not have to think about what a technique is for or whether it is useful that way, even if you sacrifice the correct technique for showing off and looking flashy in kata. I have little knowledge of how techniques in kata can be used against actual opponents. Judo, however, is much more realistic in that sense.

So you can’t leave one club and join another without the original club’s owner’s written permission?

That could quite possibly be the most absurd thing I’ve heard in the martial arts, and I’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff. I’m not saying you’re misinformed, as I don’t know where you live and train, I’m just saying that that policy is pretty crazy. It’s one thing if you’re transferring from one club to another club within an organization, ie transferring from the NYC branch of Joe’s Karate School to the Los Angeles branch of Joe’s Karate School. While I wouldn’t completely agree with it, I could see that being done for paperwork, rank, and instructors in the same organization not competing with each other and stuff like that. But to leave a school and start somewhere else entirely? It’s mind boggling to me.

Are you sure this is an official policy, like a legal policy that’s applicable to all MA schools in your country, or is this something you’ve heard that could be urban legend? Kind of like the urban legend here in the US that black belts must register their hands and feet as lethal weapons with their local police department. It’s pure nonsense, but people still actually believe it.

I’d check with an independent party to make sure it’s an actual policy and not something people have made up to keep students from leaving.

I agree. Absolute nonsense!

I think that this is a misconception of an introduction letter within the same organization. You don't have to pay money, it's not a necessity, nor does it keep you from joining another school in another town/city/state/country. It's a courtesy and nothing more.

Instructors will write a letter of introduction to make the transition easier and establish the students credentials. It basically states that they are a student of yours, they trained for "x" years, hold the grade of "x" and are in good standing with the organization, and your contact information should other information be needed.

It's not needed nor is it a requirement for either the student or instructor. It's a courtesy and nothing more. No one forces this nor does it keep the student from joining another school.

Outside of an organization... Absolute nonsense! Sounds to me like a way to get a few more dollars out of the student before they leave. I wouldn't pay a dime.

Unfortunately, this is a requirement in my country -probably a precaution because instructors do not like losing their successful students after spending so much time and effort on them, when they are offered better training conditions and stuff. There is even a list of fees on the official website of our national karate federation, for the amount you need to pay to transfer to other clubs, and this amount skyrockets if you represented your country in competitions and got medals. Fortunately, I am a mere karateka with no medals but I do not want to pay this still huge amount of money to my instructor, either-nearly equal to what I pay in one year to him. Actually, there is no other Shotokan club in my city that I can attend and offers better training, so what I have in mind is quit it rather than transfer to somewhere else.

I am just trying to understand the process so please forgive the questions. What country do you live in> The government that makes and enforces laws against murder for instance (not the karate organization) only allows you to be a member of 1 MA organization? What is the legal punishment for not getting an approval letter? Jail, fines? Your National Karate Federation is a government agency? Not a private organization? If it is a private organization, do they just withhold your records if you try to transfer? If you are switching styles why does that even matter? You should start at the beginning (white belt) anyway.

[conrad665]

I am just trying to understand the process so please forgive the questions. What country do you live in> The government that makes and enforces laws against murder for instance (not the karate organization) only allows you to be a member of 1 MA organization? What is the legal punishment for not getting an approval letter? Jail, fines? Your National Karate Federation is a government agency? Not a private organization? If it is a private organization, do they just withhold your records if you try to transfer? If you are switching styles why does that even matter? You should start at the beginning (white belt) anyway.

It is O.K. Well, it is not a heinous crime to want to transfer to a new dojo but it is highly uncourteous if you do it unless you are moving to somewhere else or just because you don't like the club and say it to the Sensei. All instructors know each other in a city and they wouldn't accept you if you do not follow the procedures properly. Our National Karate Federation is a government agency and every karateka has to be registered to enter the exams, competitions, etc. There is no problem with starting a new style from the beginning as a white belt, but if you wish to continue with your previous style, unfortunately, these are the rules :/

But, as I said, there are no other Shotokan clubs that I can attend and "fit my taste", so I am thinking about trying out Kyokushin a bit. Together with other reasons, I've lost my ability to even touch my opponents in the last few years, because I always pair up with people -how to say- "less tough" than me, like 16-year-old kids or delicate ladies and I am afraid of hurting them in any way.

[bushido_man96]

I am just trying to understand the process so please forgive the questions. What country do you live in> The government that makes and enforces laws against murder for instance (not the karate organization) only allows you to be a member of 1 MA organization? What is the legal punishment for not getting an approval letter? Jail, fines? Your National Karate Federation is a government agency? Not a private organization? If it is a private organization, do they just withhold your records if you try to transfer? If you are switching styles why does that even matter? You should start at the beginning (white belt) anyway.

It is O.K. Well, it is not a heinous crime to want to transfer to a new dojo but it is highly uncourteous if you do it unless you are moving to somewhere else or just because you don't like the club and say it to the Sensei. All instructors know each other in a city and they wouldn't accept you if you do not follow the procedures properly. Our National Karate Federation is a government agency and every karateka has to be registered to enter the exams, competitions, etc. There is no problem with starting a new style from the beginning as a white belt, but if you wish to continue with your previous style, unfortunately, these are the rules :/

But, as I said, there are no other Shotokan clubs that I can attend and "fit my taste", so I am thinking about trying out Kyokushin a bit. Together with other reasons, I've lost my ability to even touch my opponents in the last few years, because I always pair up with people -how to say- "less tough" than me, like 16-year-old kids or delicate ladies and I am afraid of hurting them in any way.

So what country is this that enforces these rules?

[LLLEARNER]

I am just trying to understand the process so please forgive the questions. What country do you live in> The government that makes and enforces laws against murder for instance (not the karate organization) only allows you to be a member of 1 MA organization? What is the legal punishment for not getting an approval letter? Jail, fines? Your National Karate Federation is a government agency? Not a private organization? If it is a private organization, do they just withhold your records if you try to transfer? If you are switching styles why does that even matter? You should start at the beginning (white belt) anyway.

It is O.K. Well, it is not a heinous crime to want to transfer to a new dojo but it is highly uncourteous if you do it unless you are moving to somewhere else or just because you don't like the club and say it to the Sensei. All instructors know each other in a city and they wouldn't accept you if you do not follow the procedures properly. Our National Karate Federation is a government agency and every karateka has to be registered to enter the exams, competitions, etc. There is no problem with starting a new style from the beginning as a white belt, but if you wish to continue with your previous style, unfortunately, these are the rules :/

But, as I said, there are no other Shotokan clubs that I can attend and "fit my taste", so I am thinking about trying out Kyokushin a bit. Together with other reasons, I've lost my ability to even touch my opponents in the last few years, because I always pair up with people -how to say- "less tough" than me, like 16-year-old kids or delicate ladies and I am afraid of hurting them in any way.

I have no words for government control of people's recreational activities.

You have somewhat limited options within the structure you have to follow. All I can try to advise in your situation is that you seem to be starting a new style, so the payoff to your current organization seems to irrelevant. Unless the authorities definition of style limits itself to "karate" without considering shotokan, goju-ryu, kyokushin as different styles. I would look into how they define style. Do they group styles by family, Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Karate, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Jujutsu, Jiu-jitsu, etc?

Being a government agency whose interest is largely financial, I bet they have their bases covered.

[conrad665]

I have no words for government control of people's recreational activities.

You have somewhat limited options within the structure you have to follow. All I can try to advise in your situation is that you seem to be starting a new style, so the payoff to your current organization seems to irrelevant. Unless the authorities definition of style limits itself to "karate" without considering shotokan, goju-ryu, kyokushin as different styles. I would look into how they define style. Do they group styles by family, Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Karate, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Jujutsu, Jiu-jitsu, etc?

Being a government agency whose interest is largely financial, I bet they have their bases covered.

They indeed have a strange kind of classification of styles. Today I learned that kyokushin karate is under Federation of Budo, together with wushu and stuff, while other karate styles are grouped under the National Karate Federation.

I finally did it! I talked to my instructor and told him I will be off for a few months. I don't know I will ever return there. I also spoke to my new potential Sensei about my intention of joining his club. There has not been a part of my life without karate for the last 10 years, and now I will spend two weeks deciding what I really want to do. Now that I have plenty of free time, together with judo and iaido, I can even start... dancing? Gymnastics? Rugby? I feel kind of empty inside, I am not sure at this moment how I should go on with my pursuit of karate.

[MatsuShinshii]

I have no words for government control of people's recreational activities.

You have somewhat limited options within the structure you have to follow. All I can try to advise in your situation is that you seem to be starting a new style, so the payoff to your current organization seems to irrelevant. Unless the authorities definition of style limits itself to "karate" without considering shotokan, goju-ryu, kyokushin as different styles. I would look into how they define style. Do they group styles by family, Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Karate, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Jujutsu, Jiu-jitsu, etc?

Being a government agency whose interest is largely financial, I bet they have their bases covered.

They indeed have a strange kind of classification of styles. Today I learned that kyokushin karate is under Federation of Budo, together with wushu and stuff, while other karate styles are grouped under the National Karate Federation.

I finally did it! I talked to my instructor and told him I will be off for a few months. I don't know I will ever return there. I also spoke to my new potential Sensei about my intention of joining his club. There has not been a part of my life without karate for the last 10 years, and now I will spend two weeks deciding what I really want to do. Now that I have plenty of free time, together with judo and iaido, I can even start... dancing? Gymnastics? Rugby? I feel kind of empty inside, I am not sure at this moment how I should go on with my pursuit of karate.

Why not try Kyokushin since it doesn't fall under the same classification? If I understood you right the whole paying to leave or transfer was in that classification, correct?

If so try it out and see if it suites you. Then you'll fill that empty time slot.