Continuos sparring format vs stop format, for self defence?

[Prototype]

I don't know how many people have tried both but in Shotokan, you stop after the first technique has been thrown, whether it successfully touched the target or not. This ensures that proper technique will be used. All you need to focus on is a single technique.

In continuos sparring format, like in ITF TaeKwonDo, you can throw 2 punches in succession. After that though you have to either stop or throw a kick, then you can punch again.

Problems with the stop format is lack of realism, and that it's impractical against combinations.

Problems with the continuos format is that punches tend to get watered down and reduced to wild swinging haymakers, with techniques being dilluted.

So for self defence, one sparring format trains you to be precise, but doesn't really prepare you for prolonged interactions. The other does prepare your for prolonged interactions, but only so much.... and the technique aspect goes straight through the window. There is no refinement to what you do. It gets messy.

Which in your experience or opinion is better of the two for self defence?

[mushybees]

For me I find short rounds of continuous sparring is best. If it does on too long it can get sloppy.

We sometimes do 60 second rounds which I find are great. We rotate partners after each round.

It forces engagement and a sense of urgency.

If we only did that I'd find it lacking but we mix it up frequently.

In terms of "self defence" we have in the past had one person act as the initial aggressor who pushes, grabs and/or strikes.

There's no de-escalation or environment awareness training so only the physical aspect of sd.

That's always a bit of fun and can be useful

[DWx]

I think it depends and both can be beneficial.

Point-fighting makes you very fast and maybe best reflects ikken hitssatsu. But a real fight might mean a bit of back and forth and having to use more than one attack to take your opponent down.

(also re. ITF Taekwon-Do, depends on which ITF. Only one group implements the 2-punch rule for competition. Should really train continuous sparring with strikes and punches anyway if you're true to the style and don't train just for comps).

[Prototype]

Should really train continuous sparring with strikes and punches anyway if you're true to the style and don't train just for comps).

I'm not sure they do, though.

[TJ-Jitsu]

That's always been the mentality of karate and the eastern style arts though- one punch one kill, hence the point sparring.

Continuous sparring is better because its more realistic. The fact that people end up with wild swinging haymakers and untechnical punches is their fault- not the sparring format...

Ultimately you want to graduate to just "sparring" like a simple boxing/thai boxing setup where its continuous and the power is a little greater.

[DWx]

Should really train continuous sparring with strikes and punches anyway if you're true to the style and don't train just for comps).

I'm not sure they do, though.

Some do if they are less competition focused. A lot of schools I know follow this format of sparring for gradings.

For what it's worth, under the same rules that enforce "2 punches", you can use back fist, ridge hand and knife hand in tournaments. Back fist gets used a lot at international level.

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

...Which in your experience or opinion is better of the two for self defence?

I have no personal experience of defending myself in a life and death situation, but a lot of the material on self defense points to realistic scenario drills coupled with awareness and avoidance training are the best preparation for self defense. Scenarios should mimic situations like: one on one, two on one, protecting innocents, non-Dojo terrain.. and include realistic attacks including grabs, holds, pushing, being pinned to the ground etc.. The objective in a self defense situation is to prevent harm and get away, not to win. (I strongly recommend books, videos, blogs, courses etc.. from Iain Abernathy, Lawrence Kane, Kris Wilder)

Sparing is still great for many other objectives and skill development and fun, but I'd clearly distinguish self defense training from fighting.

[Prototype]

Should really train continuous sparring with strikes and punches anyway if you're true to the style and don't train just for comps).

I'm not sure they do, though.

Some do if they are less competition focused. A lot of schools I know follow this format of sparring for gradings.

For what it's worth, under the same rules that enforce "2 punches", you can use back fist, ridge hand and knife hand in tournaments. Back fist gets used a lot at international level.

How am I supposed to use a knife hand with gloves? Only punches are allowed. I have never seen a back fist thrown, ever.

[MatsuShinshii]

I think the problem is the stopping.

It's not realistic no matter the reason it is practiced. This will ingrain muscle memory and as such the student will respond this way in real life.

As far as two punches and stop or kick to throw more. I'm not sure about this or why this would be practiced either. In real life there are no rules that state after so many of these techniques you must stop or throw a kick. Real life is unpredictable and as such the student must use the right responses for any given sequence of attacks. Stopping or needing to throw a kick at the wrong time and you're looking up at the ceiling wondering how you got there.

"Self defense" applications are practiced at a beginner level at a slow pace so that the students can develop the proper body mechanics and learn the technique. The problem with some schools is that they never ramp this up and make it real. What good is found in practicing against a partner that allows you to do as you will? If the threat of a continued attack is not present we can all look like king Karate.

This exercise is meant to be done with a compliant partner at first but the speed and power is increased and the compliance is eventually discarded to that there is realism. Full speed, full power, non-compliance and intent to connect. Without this the student is learning nothing and even worse building muscle memory so that when they are attacked this will be their response and they will be destroyed.

[DWx]

Should really train continuous sparring with strikes and punches anyway if you're true to the style and don't train just for comps).

I'm not sure they do, though.

Some do if they are less competition focused. A lot of schools I know follow this format of sparring for gradings.

For what it's worth, under the same rules that enforce "2 punches", you can use back fist, ridge hand and knife hand in tournaments. Back fist gets used a lot at international level.

How am I supposed to use a knife hand with gloves? Only punches are allowed. I have never seen a back fist thrown, ever.

Have a look at the rules as published by the ITF. Backfist knifehand and ridgehand are permitted as long as they are under control and not wild swinging. Backfist is used all the time. Always with the lead hand and often to initiate a movement.

Here's some examples if you wanted to incorporate it in your sparring