Reason for belonging

[Alan Armstrong]

What is your reason for belonging to a martial art club or organization?

[sensei8]

Credible lineage!!

Reasons for "belonging" to either will vary from practitioner to practitioner. Albeit, no reason(s) are wrong, imho, because each of us have our reason(s) to do so.

It wasn't for the need of belonging to something because I already belonged to the Hombu. At 7 years old, I didn't join anything of my own desires and needs; that was birthed by my mom, her being the adult, and me being the child.

A portion of my monthly dues went to the SKKA, which is how it still is, and that's how students join the SKKA.

Let me lay this question in your lap...Why NOT belong to a MA club or organization??

[MatsuShinshii]

I agree with you Sensei8 and on the other hand I also slightly disagree. Yes credible lineage is important but you have that lineage whether you belong or go out on your own. You are a product of your teachers and theirs before them. This can not be revoked by an entity.

History as they say can not be erased if there is documented proof of it. It happened and as long as you can prove it, no organization can make it un-happen. And therefore lineage is credible whether they wish it to be or not.

Other than that distinction I agree with you.

[sensei8]

I agree with you Sensei8 and on the other hand I also slightly disagree. Yes credible lineage is important but you have that lineage whether you belong or go out on your own. You are a product of your teachers and theirs before them. This can not be revoked by an entity.

History as they say can not be erased if there is documented proof of it. It happened and as long as you can prove it, no organization can make it un-happen. And therefore lineage is credible whether they wish it to be or not.

Other than that distinction I agree with you.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am the living product of Shindokan, therefore, the lineage lies within me, and continues within me without the SKKA. I suppose that the SKKA possibly provides that big fat stamp of authenticity of an exclamation point!!

Again, proof is on the floor!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

In the overwhelming majority of case, becoming an instructor’s student means one is part of that instructor’s school, club or/and organization. The general reason for joining is an interest in learning the martial art which is taught there.

The specific reasons are that training in a group allows more options to practise and opportunities to learn than doing it alone or privately with only one instructor. Strictly private lessons are not always available either. Personally the training methods, the content and the instructor’s vision were appealing.

[Wastelander]

I'm part of the Shorinkan because my Sensei is part of the Shorinkan, because his Sensei is part of the Shorinkan. It's a pretty straightforward process. Now, it doesn't always stay that way--sometimes people break away for their own reasons. It is nice to have certificates from the honbu dojo on Okinawa to "legitimize" ranks or titles, but as MatsuShinshii states, the lineage doesn't go away even if you leave the organization.

[JR 137]

Student’s point of view here (not a teacher’s)...

Belonging to a recognized organization will lend a degree of initial credibility to the teacher. Same as lineage, especially for the non-organization types like the Chinese arts.

Side note: why are organizations far more prevalent in Japanese and Korean arts, less so in Okinawan, and seemingly non-existent in Chinese?

Initial credibility is a good thing. It’ll get me to visit that school first, if it’s what I deem a credible organization. And I’ll have a better idea of what they do and how they do it. How much of a surprise would I be in for if I looked into a Kyokushin school? Knowing Shigeru Oyama’s, Tadashi Nakamura’s, Royce Gracie’s, etc reputation and having a good sense of their standards, someone who’s earned rank and teaching teaching under name holds some weight. Sure one or two may have slipped between the cracks, but they’d tend to be more the exception than the rule. How much credibility do you give an Ashida Kim or Frank Dux certified instructor? Fred Villari?

With an organization, there’s a good chance the teacher is him/herself a student under the founder or higher-ups. If they’re someone’s student, they’re still studying and learning and less likely to be someone who’s just passing time and making a few bucks.

Organizations can work the other way by keeping me far away from certain places, as there are several well known McDojo chains out there. I’m not going to name names, but there’s quite a few “no experience necessary” organizations out there. When I was looking into re-starting coming on 3 years ago, I googled a local MA school I knew nothing about. I came across an “open your own dojo; no experience necessary” video put out by that organization on YouTube. No way I’m even visiting that school.

I’m in Seido Juku. It’s a large organization. One big benefit of it is there’s various get-togethers/workouts/seminars open to all students in the organization. Another benefit is I can drop in and take a class at another dojo. I tell my teacher I’ll be in the area of that school, he calls as a courtesy, and it’s a done deal. Sure I’m a guest, but I’m still a member of the organization; no questions about what I’m supposed to know, etiquette, what my motives are, etc. I’m not coming in off the streets and having the teacher think I’m dropping a challenge.

But being in an organization will only get one so far. The teacher still has to know how to teach. He/she still has to be competent. There are some dojos within my organization that wouldn’t be a good fit for me for a variety of reasons. In this sense, there’s no difference between an independent teacher and one who’s affiliated. Being a member of an organization I’m interested in will get my attention. Running a dojo will keep it.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Also from a student’s point of view, organizations mean something only if one has a minimum of information about what to look for. The average new student has very little else to go on except personal first impressions.

In the end everything depends on the intructor and whether or not said instructor provides what the student wants out of martial arts. Most students only learn much details about their organization or lineage after having training a few years.

[JR 137]

Also from a student’s point of view, organizations mean something only if one has a minimum of information about what to look for. The average new student has very little else to go on except personal first impressions.

In the end everything depends on the intructor and whether or not said instructor provides what the student wants out of martial arts. Most students only learn much details about their organization or lineage after having training a few years.

Quite true. But in this day and age of the internet, social media and forums such as this, the prospective first time student has far more information than ever before. That information can be correct or incorrect though.

[JR 137]

While even being in an impeccable organization (if there ever was one) is great and all, it won’t exactly be there when you’re walking alone down the street and stuff hits the fan.