It's wrong for men to hit women

[JR 137]

I’m probably going to get myself in trouble here, and maybe this should be another thread, but here goes...

Between my first stint and my current training, I’ve got about 10 years of experience total. One thing that’s always made me uncomfortable is hitting women in the chest during sparring. I’ve never had a complaint about it and honestly can’t recall a single time when I caused obvious pain by doing so. I don’t intentionally go after it, but if that’s the only opening I have, I take it.

I’m not any more comfortable with it today than I was with it my first time sparring. I feel like I’m taking advantage of an inherent weak/painful spot. I feel like if the only opening I gave was my groin, sparring partners wouldn’t target it, so why am I doing something along the same lines? And if it’s a repeated target during a round, I feel like that woman may think I’m either doing it to take advantage or grope, or something else that’s flat out untrue. But if they did feel that way, I’d completely understand why even though it’s not correct.

Any women on the board want to weigh in on this?

I don’t know. I have no idea what I’m truly asking. Nor do I have any idea if there’s a genuine answer. It’s most likely me making it an issue where there truly isn’t one.

And am I the only guy who feels this way? I can’t be the only one, can I?

[singularity6]

Well, I never really aim for the chest, but I would feel bad if I hit someone there.

My wife did drop me in class once: round kick to the groin.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Regradless of who one trains with everyone involved ought to accept the level of risk that comes with the contact intensity of whatever is being done. Unintentional injuries can happen with even the slightest mistake.

Having said this, it is a prejudice to everyone’s training to give anyone any kind of special treatment. Men and women of similar age, skill level et cetera should be able to practise at an equal standard.

[DWx]

So far only guys have responded. How do the female forum members feel about this?

Also I wonder how often do you personally come across this mindset nowadays?

As a female I have to admit this is a semi-frequent thing I experience even in our dojang. When sparring a new adult male student it's 50:50 whether they say "I'm not hitting you. You're a woman" and then try to go easy on you. I personally still get this attitude from more experienced students who should know me better and know that I'm OK sparring hard. Personally it detracts from my learning. No-one is going to try to mug me half-heartedly and I need to train realistically.

[DWx]

I’m probably going to get myself in trouble here, and maybe this should be another thread, but here goes...

Between my first stint and my current training, I’ve got about 10 years of experience total. One thing that’s always made me uncomfortable is hitting women in the chest during sparring. I’ve never had a complaint about it and honestly can’t recall a single time when I caused obvious pain by doing so. I don’t intentionally go after it, but if that’s the only opening I have, I take it.

I’m not any more comfortable with it today than I was with it my first time sparring. I feel like I’m taking advantage of an inherent weak/painful spot. I feel like if the only opening I gave was my groin, sparring partners wouldn’t target it, so why am I doing something along the same lines? And if it’s a repeated target during a round, I feel like that woman may think I’m either doing it to take advantage or grope, or something else that’s flat out untrue. But if they did feel that way, I’d completely understand why even though it’s not correct.

Any women on the board want to weigh in on this?

I don’t know. I have no idea what I’m truly asking. Nor do I have any idea if there’s a genuine answer. It’s most likely me making it an issue where there truly isn’t one.

And am I the only guy who feels this way? I can’t be the only one, can I?

Only speaking from personal experience, but getting hit in the chest is no different to getting punched in the gut. Both hurt but both are a part of training. It certainly wouldn't be on a par with guys getting hit in the groin as far as pain goes. That's just me though, I'm sure other women may feel differently. I think best to continue as normal but if it's obviously causing discomfort to your partner, they can ask you to stop if they need to.

[DWx]

Well yes and no. I was always taught that it was wrong to hit a lady. To this day I have never raised my hand to a lady or for that matter a woman.

If a woman comes at me empty handed then I will walk away or control her until she calms down. I hate to say it but if a woman comes at me with a weapon she'll be coughing up teach for a week. The way I see it is if a woman wants to act like a punk then she needs to be ready to accept the consequences of being a punk just like any man.

In training however... everything goes out the window. I believe in contact. Contact is a great teacher. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the men get to wail on female students. What is good for one gender is good for another. In fact I see no gender in a Dojo.

If someone, no matter the gender, color, race, religion, creed, etc. wants special treatment they need to look elsewhere. I hold everyone to the same standards I hold myself. Once you enter the Dojo floor you are the same as anyone else.

To be honest, I think some instructors do women a disservice by going easy. Who needs to know how to defend themselves against a larger opponent more, a man or a woman? Who is more likely to be attacked?

If anything I'm tougher on women because they need to learn these skills and understand how to deal with what will happen and how to deal with it.

In the Dojo, leave your gender and every other hang up at the door. They're not welcome.

Everyone should be treated equally in (and outside) the dojo. My feelings mirror yours pretty much exactly.

One thing I’ve heard so many times is how women in karate around the 80s and earlier were treated very harshly. I know quite a few women who came up in bare knuckle/full contact systems who were constantly intentionally hit harder than men were at the time. It was such a male dominated art that many men felt women had to prove they were worthy and tried to make the point that women couldn’t hang with the men. All the women I know who trained through that era are TOUGH AS NAILS. I’m glad we’ve moved on as a society and no longer accept that.

Anecdotally I've heard the same from TKDladies who began training in the early days. It was very much a man's game and they had to go above and beyond to prove themselves and were on a whole different level.

[bushido_man96]

This is one of those statements that many people will take at face value and agree that it is true, no matter the circumstances, when in fact, each situation needs to be evaluated.

If men and women/boys and girls are set up for some form of competition with each other, then its not the same thing. But again, I think it depends on the competition type. I don't think men vs women in MMA is right or proper. Point sparring with lighter contact, sure.

With that all said, by and large, as a society, I think the idea that men shouldn't strike women is true. Its how I teach my kids. But there are always exceptions, and one must be smart and realize if they are experiencing the exception.

[JR 137]

Thank you Danielle for your follow-up posts to mine. It’s great to hear a woman’s point of view on the chest matter.

As far as the early TKD ladies, I imagine their stories are no different than the ones I’ve heard. You put it perfectly; they had to really go above and beyond just to prove themselves.

[singularity6]

So far only guys have responded. How do the female forum members feel about this?

Also I wonder how often do you personally come across this mindset nowadays?

As a female I have to admit this is a semi-frequent thing I experience even in our dojang. When sparring a new adult male student it's 50:50 whether they say "I'm not hitting you. You're a woman" and then try to go easy on you. I personally still get this attitude from more experienced students who should know me better and know that I'm OK sparring hard. Personally it detracts from my learning. No-one is going to try to mug me half-heartedly and I need to train realistically.

Interestingly enough, our instructors tell us to not consider gender when sparring, for your exact reasons.

[mazzybear]

I’m probably going to get myself in trouble here, and maybe this should be another thread, but here goes...

Between my first stint and my current training, I’ve got about 10 years of experience total. One thing that’s always made me uncomfortable is hitting women in the chest during sparring. I’ve never had a complaint about it and honestly can’t recall a single time when I caused obvious pain by doing so. I don’t intentionally go after it, but if that’s the only opening I have, I take it.

I’m not any more comfortable with it today than I was with it my first time sparring. I feel like I’m taking advantage of an inherent weak/painful spot. I feel like if the only opening I gave was my groin, sparring partners wouldn’t target it, so why am I doing something along the same lines? And if it’s a repeated target during a round, I feel like that woman may think I’m either doing it to take advantage or grope, or something else that’s flat out untrue. But if they did feel that way, I’d completely understand why even though it’s not correct.

Any women on the board want to weigh in on this?

I don’t know. I have no idea what I’m truly asking. Nor do I have any idea if there’s a genuine answer. It’s most likely me making it an issue where there truly isn’t one.

And am I the only guy who feels this way? I can’t be the only one, can I?

I'm with Danielle on this point, being hit on the chest. It doesn't hurt anymore than being hit anywhere else. The only time it hurt me being hit on the chest was a night when I forgot to remove my body jewellery and took a direct hit. very painful but entirely my own fault.

I like to train with the guys, they don't reign in for the simple fact I'm a woman, we train hard so any situation we encounter outside won't be too much of a shock.

As to the original question: Is it wrong for a man to hit a woman?

If the woman has done nothing to provoke a violent act, then absolutely, YES it's wrong, but I would say this is true if the victim is male or female. Any violence against an innocent party is wrong.

That said if the woman is the instigator of the situation and is being violent toward the male, then no, the man should be well within his rights to hit her back in defence of himself.

Personally if I ever punched a man in the face, I'd fully expect to be punched back and deservedly so. I've seen it often on nights out, women getting ripped into men because they think they're safe in the knowledge that if the man hits back, then they can play the victim card and their accompanying male friends will play the hero and also hit the first male, and it usually works, the man will just shell up and accept a beating, it's horrific.

Only once have I ever seen the male hit back and straight away the female began crying and shouting about hitting a woman. Thankfully there were plenty witnesses to what she had done and all agreed she fully deserved to be hit back.

Mo.