How practical are kata?

[shortyafter]

So I'm sure this is an age-old question but I recently had to pose it to myself after watching this short documentary on Okinawan karate:

. Nothing groundbreaking here but I think it was well done, so check it out if you like. (Not necessary to respond to this post)

These Okinawan guys are all about kata and talk about how, through training kata alone you are prepared for a self-defense situation. This reminds me of my Shotokan training, and the teachings of Sensei Funakoshi, which are basically the same ideal.

I also practice Kyokushin during the summers and just got done doing a month in that dojo. I know Mas Oyama trained with Funakoshi, and I was curious to see what opinion he had of him, and what I found was that he sort of dismissed him for only training kata and etiquette. In addition, my Kyokushin Sensei trained with Oyama and is very passionate about his style. He was explaining that, although sport may have become a bit too important within Kyokushin, the initial principle holds true - only through full contact sparring can we reach the pinnacle of spiritual and physical strength.

So what do you guys think? I'm curious to see what opinion more experienced karateka have about this debate. Thanks.

[singularity6]

My apologies - I'm neither very experienced, nor do I practice "karate," but I do have an opinion on the topic:

Kata, or forms alone might not be enough for self defense situations. My limited experience in tournaments has shown me that most people do their forms by simply going through the motions. I frequently wonder if that's because many aren't trained about the applications of the forms. If you're trained to understand what the form is defending against, or attacking, then yes, I do feel it will help prepare you for self defense (and make your form look that much better!)

There is also a relaxation-component in the forms that's important (for me, at least.) Getting up in front of a group of people to do your forms can be a bit on the nerve-wracking side. This puts you in a flight-or-fight situation. Being able to execute your form fluidly, with the appropriate power and finesse while you have a bit of adrenaline going does prepare you for a conflict situation - in order to have control of your body, you must have control of your mind, which means you must be breathing!

That being said, I feel that you do need to spar in order to really be prepared. And you should always try to spar with someone who'll push you.

[Zaine]

I think that kata are important provided that you a) learn what the moves in the kata are actually doing and b) practice those moves like you would any other self defense technique (like in step drills). This is something that I find a lot of schools lacking on, especially in the lower levels.

You can be the very best at Pinan Shodan, but if you don't know the practical applications of it then do you really know it?

[Wastelander]

The impression you got is exactly why I get frustrated with the kata applications and "story" shown in pretty much every karate documentary and book. Sometimes the instructors simply don't know better, but sometimes they do, and are just adhering to a sense of secrecy that is harmful to karate. If we keep showing people the super-basic applications of kata, and telling people that just practicing kata will make you skilled in fighting and self defense, then karate will continue to lose respect as a martial art, and people will stop practicing it, and it will die.

The practice of solo kata is meant to develop timing, movement flow, and body mechanics associated with the applications. You can do it at full speed, with full power, and not worry about your partner's safety. You also don't need a partner to practice, which is handy for when one is not available. If a partner IS available, though, you should be drilling the applications of the kata with them, and the applications of kata are NOT the super-basic ones that are so frequently shown. If you train practical applications, practice them with increasing levels and types of resistance, drill for failure and contingencies, incorporate them into pressure testing exercises ("sparring" isn't exactly the best word in every case, but that does come into play here), and properly visualize them while training your kata, then it is certainly beneficial and effective. Admittedly, I would say that most karateka these days do not do that, for a variety of reasons.

[TJ-Jitsu]

I think it's quite useless myself. Prearranged stacks never tend to work well. What usually makes people efficient fighters is their ability to adapt their techniques to whichever position.

When I get a chance I'll show you what the bjj equivalent is- people who post long strings of techniques that would almost assuredly never happened for what they believe is a good way to train.

Keep your training live. There's a reason why fighters are good at fighting...

[sensei8]

Kata is considered to be the heart of Karate-do!! Without it, the Karate-do dies.

Your poised question will receive a wide plethora of answers!! One way or another, you'll have to make that decision for yourself. I'll not try to sway you one way or another because the decision across the board belongs to you, and you alone.

I have always believed in Kata, just as I've also always believed in Kihon and Kumite; these elements can't survive on their own, and they are dependent on one another. Imagine a three legged chair, and one of that chairs legs are purposefully removed. Just how solid and secure is that chair?? Not much, at all!! Kata depends on Kihon as well as Kumite, so on and so forth.

These are the building blocks that are the foundation of Karate-do.

Muscle memory depends on repetitive actions, but the actions must be correct, and effective. Drilling Kihon and Kata, do prepare one for Kumite. However, unless one engages in Kumite, Kihon and Kata die as a useless principle.

Through Kata and Kihon, I've a much better understanding as to the mechanics of each technique, but still, they're useless unless I apply them efficiently AND effectively, as well.

An understanding is a start, but it isn't a complete start. That requires LIVE RESISTANCE. Through Kata, I've an understanding how my body works facing the many different possibilities that one might encounter. The Bunkai/Oyo open up many other questions and answers to the how's and why's, for a start, of what to do when I see something so very familiar through Kata.

Again, I'm not interested in swaying you to believe in Kata, just my believe in a very general way.

Often times I hear from those who dismiss Kata, that because I believe in Kata, I'll be defeated quite easily. That's quite an assumption especially when they've not ever stepped on the floor with me in any capacity. Dismissing my 5 generations of being on the floor...dismissing my Sensei and his Sensei...dismissing every single student of mine...as easy marks because we believe in Kata, and they don't.

That's fair because they're entitled to their opinions. I don't have to like their opinions towards Kata, but I have to respect their believe(s) towards Kata.

[Zaine]

Sometimes the instructors simply don't know better, but sometimes they do, and are just adhering to a sense of secrecy that is harmful to karate. If we keep showing people the super-basic applications of kata, and telling people that just practicing kata will make you skilled in fighting and self defense, then karate will continue to lose respect as a martial art, and people will stop practicing it, and it will die.

I have spent so much time thinking about, and debating, this very thing. We have to begin understanding that secrecy in regarding bunkai is useless.

[sensei8]

Sometimes the instructors simply don't know better, but sometimes they do, and are just adhering to a sense of secrecy that is harmful to karate. If we keep showing people the super-basic applications of kata, and telling people that just practicing kata will make you skilled in fighting and self defense, then karate will continue to lose respect as a martial art, and people will stop practicing it, and it will die.

I have spent so much time thinking about, and debating, this very thing. We have to begin understanding that secrecy in regarding bunkai is useless.

That secrecy with anything MA is pure unreasonable, at best, imho. How so?? At one time, during a time some time ago, that might've been so. Nonetheless, times change because change is inevitable, and if people don't want to change, then they die away, one way or another.

Secrecy, I don't personal agree with that mindset, if it still exists in today's MA society; I've not time to ponder it's aliveness or the lack thereof. I was taught out of secrecy, and therefore I teach out of secrecy. Soke and Dai-Soke held nothing back; they were those open books. And they, my friends, were from that place as well as that time when secrecy wholeheartedly was alive for one reason or another. They both taught us without reservations, and therefore, I, in exchange, do the same with my own students, as do every CI within the SKKA network with their own students.

Let no man put asunder!! Let man not think more highly of himself than he ought!! Let no man pull you low enough to hate him!! Let no man say when he is tempted!!

Whenever I've heard, or whenever I do hear that something(s) hidden in secrecy, and it, whatever it is, is withheld from their Student Body, I believe that this is so because that CI him/herself doesn't have the minimum of an idea him/herself!! Instead of that CI just saying that they don't know, whenever asked and/or pressed, they hide behind the secrecy mindset in the hope that that will appease whomever for that moment.

Imho!!

Edited September 11, 2017 by sensei8

[shortyafter]

Hi all, thank you for the replies. It sounds like most of us are in agreement - kata are important, but they must be "kept alive" through application via bunkai, kihon and kumite. I can jive with that. Sensei8 - thanks for a thoughtful and detailed reply. That makes sense to me.

I personally find that kata help me train to use my body effectively. Like, yeah hitting a bag is super important too. But with kata I really get a sense of how my whole body is involved - from my feet, up to my hips, to my breath, to my punch. And beyond. At least, that is, when I'm doing it right - and always through prolonged and persistent training. My CIs guide me, but I have subtle breakthroughs where I really "feel" the lessons they've been trying to teach me. And I take these discoveries with me, outside of doing kata.

I think another thing is discipline. It is an art after all. There's a sort of grace that you see when a karateka has mastered a kata. Or even when a novice executes a kata in a better way than they had before. You can see the manifestation of all the effort, learning and growth that a karateka has undergone. And I think that grace is something that again you can take with you outside of kata. It's not just about pounding your opponent, relying solely on brute physicality. Perhaps that grace is what allows you to keep your cool in a self-defense situation, and even take on multiple opponents at once - or better yet, avoid a conflict all together.

This is what kata mean to me. Thank you guys for your responses and as you have all suggested I will work to apply this knowledge in scenarios that are more live and realistic.

[Spartacus Maximus]

When one understands the principles and mechanics of a technique as well as its purpose, the importance of kata becomes clear. kata is essential for learning these points and feeling how they function. Kata is a drill in body mechanics and movement principles. These, however must be correct and understand otherwise it is a dance. Or like memorizing and singing a song in a language one neither speaks nor understands.

Kata is but one part of karate and is of no use if it is not fully integrated to kihon and kumite. The three are meant to complement and complete one another. They are not meant to be considered separately.

When a training partner or your instructor is available practise the techniques together. Kata is for when one is training alone to practise and reinforce what was done with partners.