Go along to get along or else!

[Alan Armstrong]

While in an Aikido class, the assistant head instructor started getting goofy with me and started slapping me in the face; four times.

It did cross my mind to ground and pound him, but I didn't do that, I kept my cool and let it slide.

It would have proved nothing to retaliate against a CI, perhaps a moment or two of instant gratification and nothing more.

[bushido_man96]

Back to the original issue of the TKD CI to knock my arm down, then to follow up with a technique.

The CI did not expect my arm to pop back up; I was expected to keep my arm down as if once it goes down it stays down.

Insects move limbs independently from each other, something I learned from my Wing Chun sifu.

There are many avenues to take with this post, one other issue could be that students have prior knowledge from other martial art styles, that can raise contradiction issues, something that will become more evident, with the passing of time.

As an instructor, this would irritate me as well, and I wouldn't stand for it in my class. I would probably have asked you to leave after class. In my opinion, there are two reasons to seek out different schools to participate in. One is to learn what they do and how they do it, and be a good student. The other is to show up with the intent to try to show the instructor up, shoot down what they do and how they do it, and try to make them look bad or incompetent. This sounds like what was going on to me, but that's just what it looks like to me.

If a practitioner's goal is to dojo hop to make instructors look silly, then there will be times that the student will get kicked in the ribs or the head or otherwise. I'm not saying that's the way it should be done, but we all know that it doesn't always work this way.

The problem with approaching things in this way is escalation. Instructor attempts to demonstrate A, and you resist, so instructor has to go to B, when instead he was trying to teach A. There is a big difference in learning the technique, then training the technique, and the applying the technique. When one person decides to be difficult in the learning phase, then it affects everyone else who is trying to learn it. In the end, no one learns anything, and the class is a wash.

[sensei8]

The bald guy and the bearded guy and Alan, all affected the learning by serving their own agenda, in which, nothing served to value anyone. Not the student body...not the CI...not either of them...no one.

Appropriate learning must be paramount, and at all the time.

Go along...don't go along...these are under the guidelines of the CI, and no one else. If the CI is teaching no-resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! If the CI is teaching resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! Students, guests, and whomever else are on the floor at the invite of the CI, better know their role, and their role is to learn...just learn...and not to serve up their own agenda's.

Imho!!

OK...going back to my corner!!

[Alan Armstrong]

The bald guy and the bearded guy and Alan, all affected the learning by serving their own agenda, in which, nothing served to value anyone. Not the student body...not the CI...not either of them...no one.

Appropriate learning must be paramount, and at all the time.

Go along...don't go along...these are under the guidelines of the CI, and no one else. If the CI is teaching no-resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! If the CI is teaching resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! Students, guests, and whomever else are on the floor at the invite of the CI, better know their role, and their role is to learn...just learn...and not to serve up their own agenda's.

Imho!!

OK...going back to my corner!!

I have had a Wing Chun instructor, show me a knife defence technique, while he was holding the (wooden) knife.

He told me to grab his wrist, on the same side that he was holding the knife.

I held his wrist, he turned his wrist out of my grip and slashed my wrist, the knife was wooden but sharp enough to draw blood.

I quit his class after the incident.

He felt that he didn't do anything wrong.

Life is full of matters of opinion.

With my TKD instructor, no one explained anything to me about how to behave when assisting with a demonstration.

Previously in the same TKD school, I was helping with demonstrations in a self defense class for the public.

Where I was the attacker and the CI demonstrated on me the moves to defend with.

I never questioned or disobeyed anything that was asked of me during the self defence seminar.

I let the attending self defense students beat me up, to build their confidence; had no problem with this aspect either.

Communication when doing demonstrations should be agreed upon before hand and not to expect the assistant or the CI to be left in a situation that can be either embarrassing or in a position of uncertainty or vulnerability.

[sensei8]

The bald guy and the bearded guy and Alan, all affected the learning by serving their own agenda, in which, nothing served to value anyone. Not the student body...not the CI...not either of them...no one.

Appropriate learning must be paramount, and at all the time.

Go along...don't go along...these are under the guidelines of the CI, and no one else. If the CI is teaching no-resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! If the CI is teaching resistance...then that's what's meant; nothing else!! Students, guests, and whomever else are on the floor at the invite of the CI, better know their role, and their role is to learn...just learn...and not to serve up their own agenda's.

Imho!!

OK...going back to my corner!!

I have had a Wing Chun instructor, show me a knife defence technique, while he was holding the (wooden) knife.

He told me to grab his wrist, on the same side that he was holding the knife.

I held his wrist, he turned his wrist out of my grip and slashed my wrist, the knife was wooden but sharp enough to draw blood.

I quit his class after the incident.

He felt that he didn't do anything wrong.

Life is full of matters of opinion.

With my TKD instructor, no one explained anything to me about how to behave when assisting with a demonstration.

Previously in the same TKD school, I was helping with demonstrations in a self defense class for the public.

Where I was the attacker and the CI demonstrated on me the moves to defend with.

I never questioned or disobeyed anything that was asked of me during the self defence seminar.

I let the attending self defense students beat me up, to build their confidence; had no problem with this aspect either.

Communication when doing demonstrations should be agreed upon before hand and not to expect the assistant or the CI to be left in a situation that can be either embarrassing or in a position of uncertainty or vulnerability.

Solid post!!

I agree...communication is the key across the board. The CI needs to make it understood as to what's expected for both/all. Assumption is where trouble is birthed, and where it remains if no one questions.

I always make it understood as to what my expectations are for both/all while we're on the floor...no matter what...NO EXCEPTIONS!!

As the CI, the responsibility as well as accountability falls onto me alone...if I've not communicated exactly what it is that we're going to do...EACH AND EVERY TIME!! If I've made it understood as to what my expectations are to whomever, and they decide to rear-up their own agenda's, then the responsibility and accountability falls to that student.

Clear and concise communications always, and if at anytime that anyone doesn't fully understand, questions must be made and addressed.

As the CI..EVERYONE'S SAFETY is mine alone to be responsible AND accountable at all times while on the floor, wherever that floor might be.

Bring your agenda of your own free will...1 warning...continue in that...you're banned from my floor forever!! Not risking my student body, or myself...for no one!!

[Alan Armstrong]

Semantics is about studying the meaning of words.

Taken a step further, using semantics can avoid many unnecessary situations and problems that can occur in a dojo.

When both sides, student and CI have the same aim for instance "Safe Cooperative Training" then everyone can grow and enjoy new interesting, martial art experiences together.

"Safe Competitive Training" could be better suited to an MMA school.

Mixing the "cooperative' with the "competitive" is where the semantic differences can cause issues, as 50% of the students could be one side and the other 50% for the other.

While the ruling CI wants the best for all 100% of the time.

Point being while sparring; one person is in the "cooperative" and the other person is in the "competitive"

The cooperative student will get beaten up by the competitive student.

Now the cooperative student is asked to cooperate with the CI.

Can the cooperative student feel confident enough to cooperate with the CI, just after sparring with one or more of the competitive students?

[sensei8]

Can the cooperative student feel confident enough to cooperate with the CI, just after sparring with one or more of the competitive students?

Yes!! Albeit, that that's something which can only be answered by the individual. Leave the fear outside of the dojo because the CI is just a person, nothing more, and there's every reason to be/feel confident.

[DWx]

Alan, if you don't mind me asking, what was your intention when you attended the TKD class?

[Alan Armstrong]

Alan, if you don't mind me asking, what was your intention when you attended the TKD class?

My intention was to improve upon my kicking and flexibility skills mostly.

The karate school I belonged to closed down so TKD was an easy option to choose.

I actually brought and introduced many of my karate friends to the TKD school.

I won a gold medal in the TKD provincials at the time. The head instructor did not congratulate me he just said "I'm surprised you won"

The other instructor spent more time, giving out tips on how to beat me at sparring to the other black belts, than trying to helping me improve; due to many embarrassing moments for them, during when I was a white belt in their style.

The black belts there were giving me all kinds of excuses why they had poor sparring skill against me, while others tried to insulted me by say that "You watch too many martial art movies"

My intent was to learn TKD and not to be embarrassing anyone or to be disrespectful. I went there to learn, others there viewed me as a competitive threat.

[singularity6]

Alan, if you don't mind me asking, what was your intention when you attended the TKD class?

My intention was to improve upon my kicking and flexibility skills mostly.

The karate school I belonged to closed down so TKD was an easy option to choose.

I actually brought and introduced many of my karate friends to the TKD school.

I won a gold medal in the TKD provincials at the time. The head instructor did not congratulate me he just said "I'm surprised you won"

The other instructor spent more time, giving out tips on how to beat me at sparring to the other black belts, than trying to helping me improve; due to many embarrassing moments for them, during when I was a white belt in their style.

The black belts there were giving me all kinds of excuses why they had poor sparring skill against me, while others tried to insulted me by say that "You watch too many martial art movies"

My intent was to learn TKD and not to be embarrassing anyone or to be disrespectful. I went there to learn, others there viewed me as a competitive threat.

Well, it sounds like that school is run by jerks.