Go along to get along or else!

[Alan Armstrong]

While in a TKD class, the CI picked me to help with a demonstration, so as to show the up and coming technique for all to practice.

I was to stand in a ready position stance, while the CI knocked down my lead arm with a cresent kick so as to continue on, to open my body up for further techniques to my head and body.

The cresent kick wasn't strong enough to knock down my lead arm, afer a few more tries without any success no matter how hard and determined the CI tried, it didn't work on me.

Of course, I could have gone along with the idea, but chose not to.

The CI chose another student, that went along with the charade.

Has something similar to this ever happened to you?

This video shows what can happen if the student doesn't go along with the CI's demonstration.

[DWx]

For a class demonstration is it really helpful to be non-compliant?

Seems a bit obstructive in my opinion. Not to mention a bit rude.

A certain technique or tactic might not work on you, but when someone is instructing it is better to give a little and go with it. For one, if they are teaching everything will be done at a slower speed with time for explanation and to show those learning the proper mechanics so of course it is easier to resist. In a live situation the technique or tactic is part of a flow of movements so has a higher chance of working. But even if the technique isn't effective in your opinion it shows a lack of respect not to just go with it for the time being in front of the class and then discuss the technique later.

In the video the person teaching shouldn't have lost his cool but they the guy in the white gi was asked to loosen up while he was demonstrating.

[Zaine]

This has never happened to me. When my CI would demonstrate a technique, he did it lightly enough to not hurt you, but did not expect you to give it to him.

I like this approach. If a technique works, then it works. As students, we shouldn't be expected to go along with a technique for the sake of the demonstration.

That being said, an instructor shouldn't do the technique so hard so that they hurt the student. There seems to be a fine line here. On the one hand, the technique should be demonstrated if it is effective. On the other hand, if the technique fails to easy resistance then it isn't effective.

I am interested to hear how the instructors of this community approach this situation. What do you expect?

[sensei8]

Imho,

Whenever the CI is demonstrating something, whatever it might be, for the students to drill on during class, then the assisting student, no matter what, should NOT RESIST the CI because the demonstration is for TEACHING ASPECT ALONE!!

The only time that the assisting student should ever resist the CI is if the CI has instructed the assisting student to do so!!

In Shindokan, this is how it's done. This is how I've been teaching forever and a day. One of Shindokan's staple is that we incorporate resistance training IN EVERYTHING WE TEACH!!

Students are LEARNING A NEW WHATEVER, and this is the time to comply with the CI. However, when the CI insists of resistance from the assisting student, which that too is a learning aspect/tool, then resistance is expected and with resolved determination.

Why complicate the learning process?? Because the assisting student decides to be difficult for whatever the reason(s) might or might not be!?!? Because the assisting student had a hair-brain idea to difficult the learning process!?!? Because the assisting student decided that he/she is running the class, and not the CI!?!? Why?? What's to be gained from this act of disrespect?? There's a price to pay for disrespecting the CI!! And no, I'm not speaking about physicality actions, whenever there are other ways to address disrespect.

As to the video shown, well, had it been Soke and/or Dai-Soke and/or myself, they/I would've succeeded against the resistance from that assisting student; there's more than one way to skin a cat.

The bearded gentleman has NO BUSINESS in teaching ANYONE because one, he's no idea what he's doing, and two, he's an anger issue; ineffectiveness across the board.

Also, I don't know what the history between the two are, and what might've feed into the altercation between them two, but something must be alerted the two other gentlemen who were standing near, then standing much closer, then intervening, then wrapping up the bearded gentleman.

[Alan Armstrong]

My not going along with the CI in a TKD clas was a quick judgement call at the time.

As we have talked about none touch knockouts and students fall down no matter what the CI does for me is wrong.

Two wrongs do not make a right, as in a technique that is in all likelihood ineffective and a none compliant student.

Having taken Karate and Wing Chun, one hard style and one very fast, the TKD cresent kick opening move is asking for something more than an embarrassing moment; IMHO.

[tallgeese]

As everyone has pretty much said, there's a big difference between learning and testing. There's zero use for resistance in instruction. It makes learning the movement from the students difficult. Taken a step further, nothing irritates me more in class than watching new students trying to resist each other when LEARNING a tactic. One needs time to process, to learn mechanics, etc. before laying in resistance. Now, once a tactic is learned, then by all means test it. These are two radically different things.

One of the strengths in BJJ is that half your education is against resistance. Which is why it irritates me beyond belief to see guys wasting technique time in class fighting each other. We, literally, have half of your mat time to do that. Half. At least. Use class time to get better. Nothing makes me go super traditional and have everyone doing line exercises quicker.

For demo it proves nothing either. Of course everyone can resist a tactic when you know that is exactly what I'm going to do and not transition to anything else. No brainer. It proves nothing to the class, the instructor, or anyone else except that the resister is a selfish uke with what is probably a radical misunderstanding of teaching methodology or a huge ego.

I give guys like this one chance. I go a second time, and while they are resisting I just move on to a tactic they are not expecting. I could care less if it's on the platter for the evening, this is jiu jitsu 101. I don't fight it with strength or muddy my teaching. If the uke is resisting I just roll with it. Example, someone once tried to muscle against a triangle I was teaching in a BASIC class. Made a point to correct a slight adjustment so that the uke had a chance o rethink. Then I simply moved on to an armbar. It falls in, he taps, and I simply explained the philosophy of resistance then sent everyone to work on the triangle.

Next demo, new uke. Open mat, no rolls from me for uke. The rest of the senior guys pick up on this. Now he's rolling with blue and white belts for the rest of the week. Problem solved. Losing your mind isn't needed if you're professional about it. But it should be clear that this is counter productive to learning. Not to mention it instills bad habits in newer people who don't know better.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying never resist. That leads to charlatans that we see all over the internet. I'm just saying time and place. My guy fixed his problem with this subtle adjustment. If the behavior continued he'd never uke again. If he did this to his partners we'd talk (I've had this conversation as well without the resistive uke demo) and make sure he got the "why" of it. It if continued he'd be gone. He is, at that point, hindering learning of everyone else in the club. This turns into a cancer. Pretty soon every new person is fighting everything, learning nothing well, and hurting good, paying students in TECHNIQUE! We haven't even got to open rolls and people are putting on ice bags. Unacceptable. That guy would go away.

[Alan Armstrong]

The CI's and other higher belts in the TKD school made my time there, from there on, went from difficult to impossible for me to stay.

I did however stick around long enough to understand and witness there internal issues, due to the low moral of the students and the CI's inabilities to adequately satisfy the students lack of self defense skills.

As the CI's were sport orientated on an Olypic level and not on a street level, such as myself.

[sensei8]

That's the beauty about the MA; disagreement of methodologies and the ideologies of the given MA style, no matter what it might be.

We, in Shindokan, teach resistance across the board from the model of teaching, and in that teaching model, we've two variants:

1) Non- Resistance Teaching/Learning

2) Resistance Teaching/Learning

Nonetheless, we're criticized for our methodology/ideology that ours is wrong/incorrect/etc., and oftentimes, vehemently.

It's our way, and our way isn't disrespectful nor is it harmful to anyone in the Student Body, yet, our way is effective in both the teaching/learning models, as well as in the application(s) that we utilize.

[Alan Armstrong]

In the video, it was just assumed that the assistant will be happy to fall victim to the wishes of another martial artist.

My mindset is also "Never allow oneself to be a victim, no matter the circumstances" in or out of a dojo.

Had enough of being a punching bag in karate, wasn't allowing it in TKD neither; unless under very special circumstances in self defense classes, given to the public; which I have gladly been playing the part as the bad guy.

[tallgeese]

In the video, it was just assumed that the assistant will be happy to fall victim to the wishes of another martial artist.

My mindset is also "Never allow oneself to be a victim, no matter the circumstances" in or out of a dojo.

Had enough of being a punching bag in karate, wasn't allowing it in TKD neither; unless under very special circumstances in self defense classes, given to the public; which I have gladly been playing the part as the bad guy.

So were you being a punching bag or being demoed on so the other class could see what technique they were supposed to be doing? There's a difference, in most cases. One hard style I trained in one was kinda like the other, but there was a purpose.

I'm not sure which you're talking about now in this illustration, as to what happened with you, not in the video.